Sunday, October 21, 2012

"I'm Not A Gamer"

Okay, so... apparently this caused a big shitstorm two weeks ago when it first happened, so call me "late" if you like but... here we are.

So! Nintendo's new ad campaign for the 3DS is based around having celebrities tell you what they use the device for, capped off by the tagline "I'm not a gamer, I'm a ______." The first (so far) is Diana Agron using an art app ("I'm not a gamer, I'm an artist;") but the second has Gabrielle Douglas playing NSMB2: "I'm not a gamer, I'm a coin-collecting champ."

There's no implicit "but" there - the idea behind the campaign isn't "I'm not a gamer but even I like this game!;" but rather "I'm not a gamer" as an affirmative statement in and of itself: "I'm not a gamer" translating to "playing this doesn't MAKE me a gamer," which in turn is reassuring prospective consumers that "playing this won't make YOU a gamer, either."

Eyebrow-raising, to be sure. But thinking on it, I like this campaign and think that it's necessary.... I just HATE that it's necessary.



The thing is, gamers have pretty-much allowed "gamer" to become a set of images in the popular culture - the rage-fueled hateful XBox Live brat, the trolling shut-in sleaze - that pretty much no one not already in "the culture" would want to be associated with; so it makes sense that someone was going to mount a campaign aimed at broader audiences based around telling them that they are "allowed" to enjoy their products without fear of being tainted with that label. I hate that it's come to this, but I can't deny that it's probably a worthwhile move.



After all, when Nintendo's pitch for the original DS and then The Wii started off by inviting "non-traditional" gamers into the fold, "gamer culture" threw a giant reactionary crying fit trying to draw a clear distinction between "REAL gamers" and the pretenders who weren't interested in AAA multiplayer action titles, or didn't grow up with an NES controller glued to their hands, or whatever the "qualifications" for being "real" were that week. So it's both fitting and entirely appropriate that they be the ones to finally be explicit about this.

69 comments:

Giuseppe said...

Victim blame.

Anonymous said...

I'm not a gamer, I'm a game player!

The Greek Geek said...

Yeah, I think you're reading a little too much into this as well. I'd see it as the same marketing campaign as that of the Wii and the DS.

The thing is, we know what's good and what's bad about our culture, but others don't necessarily.

A few years back, when I was working retail selling PC hardware, I picked up an RCA cable for my PS2 from the store. When I went to pay, the teller I was working with and flirted with occasionally (she flirted with me, not the other way around) asked me what this is for.

Once I answered her question, her attitude changed entirely. I didn't start rambling on about games or anything, just answered her question.

For all the influence "nerd culture" had in mainstream in the last decade+ I believe a bit of the old stigma still stands.

Anonymous said...

"the trolling shut-in sleaze"

Let's not mince words. The Aris Bakhtanians of the world.

The Nag said...

Jesus... why do people, especially Americans read so much into it >.>; It's really quite straightforward, if not the tiniest bit subtle.

The ad is really just saying that "gamer" is too narrow a term.
Why call yourself a gamer when you're "doing/experiencing so much more".

It's like... imagine you walk in on your son/little brother/whatever all wrapped in white clothes and a helmet, hopping around,and you ask him what he's playing. He looks angrily at you and says "I'm an astronaut!!!!!" and not "I'm playing a game".

The ad is meant to say the same.
When you play Uncharted, you're not a gamer; you're an explorer.
When you play Call of Duty, you're not a gamer; you're a soldier.
When you play Super Mario, you're not a gamer; you're Ron Jeremy on mushrooms.

It's a very Nintendo-like ad really. Nintendo's whole goal of wanting to immerse the gamer in something different, in a fantastic new world, and not hues of grey and brown.

Pai said...

"Why do people, especially Americans, read so much into it?"

Have you not read the title of this blog? =P

The Nag said...

Pfffff :p
There's no game to overthink here!!!

The Nag said...

BTW, Cetaganda :') <3

Aiddon said...

the schtick of the whole campaign is basically saying Nintendo's titles are so immersive they draw you into the world. If A Zelda ad showed up they'd probably say "I'm not a gamer, I'm a hero." However, I will say that gamers throwing a fit over this probably means it did hit a BIT too close to home, not that they'd ever admit that. Maybe if gamers hadn't given their culture such a toxic image in the first place it wouldn't have to come to this.

The Nag said...

That's the fault of those touchy gamers though.
It's also funny how most negative reactions have come from American outlets, when it's a British commercial.
Same for the pew pew pew thing. Loads and loads of Brits will recognize Adam Buxton's voice and realize that the pew pew pew is just his style of humour.

I keep going on about American this, American that. It's not my intention to imply that Americans are stupid, incompetent, ignorant, etc. Well, not more than any other people.
It is true however that Americans are conditionned since youth for in-your-face straightforward thinking. I am always reminded of a story my father told me once from when he worked for a British consulate. All British diplomats and business men would receive an information kit about how to behave around Americans, and the first thing in the list, in huge red letters was: "DON'T BE SUBTLE. IT DOESN'T WORK WITH AMERICANS, AND THEY WILL PROBABLY TAKE OFFENSE AT NEVER-IMPLIED SLIGHTS.

That always made me laugh like hell xD

Anyhow, my point is: if you're American and you take slight at that commercial, shut the fuck up. It wasn't made for you, etc...

Alterego-X said...

It definitely puts an interesting spin on the hardcore/casual divide.

I mean, after that, can you still BLAME people for claiming to be "true gamers", when the people they compare themselves to, are explicitly being bought over by affirmation that they are not true gamers?

I've always felt, that it's a bit pointless to throw accusations of elitism and arrogance at people, who claim to be more invested in a subject in which their "casual" counterparts enthusiastically agree about being less invested.

This just clarifies it. Hardcores are proud of being true gamers, casuals are proud of NOT being true gamers. Everyone is proud and happy where they are. This could be a good foundation for subcultures replacing their "chauvinistic" superiority complex, with a kind of moderate "platform patriotism", where I am a gamer, and others are not, and there is nothing wrong with either.

The Greek Geek said...

"Hardcores are proud of being true gamers, casuals are proud of NOT being true gamers."

These terms are in dire need of redefinition. To me, a "hardcore" gamer is the guy that edits the Unreal engine to optimize a game for his system and then spends hours on-end exploring every tiny corner of what it has to offer.

The rest of us are just (casual) gamers. Those on the outside who pick up a controller every now and then and outgrow it when life becomes an issue are just "people who play games".

Andrew Eisen said...

If New Super Mario Bros. 2 strikes you as an odd choice for this commercial campaign... Well, it could have been worse.

I made one of these commercials using a different game. (No, it's not LovePlus or Doki Doki Majo Shinpan!) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOD7GbLwBvo

Enjoy!


Andrew Eisen

Sabre said...

I'm with the guys that say it's just an advert slogan. The Uncharted "I'm not a gamer, I'm an explorer." example is far better than how I could explain it.

If it is a devide to let the mainstream know the device is 'safe' for them, I think it has to do with the view of gamer culture (in England at least) being more about "those fat, ugly, shut in geeks" than some community infighting that the mainstream likely doesn't know or care about.

The Nag said...

Whoops, I might have train of thoughted into the Brit commercial for that last post. My bad.

Kyle said...

I wasn't really that concerned with the whole issue when these videos hit the internet and it still doesn't bother me. Nintendo's still making games I like and it really doesn't bother me what other people think. If these commercials got more non-gamers to play these games, awesome.

Of course, that's a pretty huge "if", at this point. Most casual gamers that bought the Wii and the DS have already moved on to other things, like their smartphones, Facebook accounts, etc. I'm sure there are a few parents/grandparents out there who were convinced by New Super Mario Bros, but I'm willing to bet that more people just saw the Wii as the 'Wii Sports Machine', because that's all they used it for. Why would they want another Wii Sports Machine when they already have a Wii Sports Machine?

Redd the Sock said...

A turd by any other name still reeks of bullshit. I never got peoples' obsession with redefining labels to make themselves feel better. Call them graphic novels all you want, you're still reading the same thing others call comics and your personal label won't change what they perceive. I'll agree these ads are probably about marketing immersion, and will likely be followed by "I'm a hero, I'm a bounty hunter, I'm a vampire hunter, ect" but even withing your perception Bob, look at the second ad: she's playing an obvious game, and wants to achieve a high score for competitive reasons. How is that not a gamer? I'd say it's better to keep the label and try and bust the sterotype by exclaiming that one can be a gamer without being the x-box live brat, or even to admit that some of the perceived flaws can also be seen as virtues. That, yes, there's something admirable about someone that can slog through something hard while others gave up at the first hurdle, or in someone that will learn and can remember years of details where others can't remember last year's American Idol.

Yes there's a lot of behavior that can't be forgiven, but it can't be fought by hiding from it in a new name. I say it proud, I'm a gamer, and the asshats that made rape comments to Anita Sarkesian don't speak for me.

Sabre said...

Redd- and even if Bob got his wish and there was a separate group called "players" or whatever name he thought up, that wouldn't change how the word is used or why it's frowned upon.

I still remember a time when the mainstream media was disapproving, apathetic, or even hostile to gaming. That wouldn't change by changing the name to player. All it would mean is news reporter or script writers would do a find and replace on "gamer" and put in "player".

Not many people know this, but the 6 letter N word was original invented as a politically correct term to replace the racially charged words of the time. Of course, it just changed the sound people used when delivering their hate speech rather than fixing the problem of racism.

I'm not some old man, but I remember when the word retard was acceptable to say in public, and referred to a mental disability. Spastic was the offensive word, but you rarely hear it now. Here's a show from the mid 2000s where it was used.
http://youtu.be/ChX131jIelQ?t=30s

The point is, these things change very quickly, so trying to think of some new title is pointless as it doesn't fix the core problem.

Jannie said...

"When you play Super Mario, you're not a gamer; you're Ron Jeremy on mushrooms."

If Nintendo made that game, I'd finally have a reason to own a Wii U besides Pikmin.

Anyway, I would say I find it hypocritical for NINTENDO of all people to do this, seeing as they effectively depend on brand loyalty for their continued survival, but then again they still seem to have some notion that "we can sell games to people who don't by games if we don't call them games...somehow" which has so many logical holes I'm actually scared that sentence will collapse on itself in a singularity of illogic.

Part of this though is so-called "outsiders" or non-gamers refusing to even attempt to understand anything outside of their own ken to though. It's the same kind of pretentious hipsters who ONLY ever use Apple products who need to be patted on the head and "there-there'd" so that they can wrap their minds around the idea that more than one world view exists.

But some of it is our fault too. And no, I'm not talking about some non-existent "brats" on XBL, what I'm talking about is how there is a segment of gamers who feel the need to distance themselves from the community because they want to be hip. This is the core reason, really, why these same people obsess over indie titles with little or no gameplay but throw around accusations of "dude bros" and "console fanboys" to the Gears fan and Mario fan alike.

It's an insidious, hipster-y, trend-obsessed subculture of gaming who then turn on their cousins whenever the mood strikes them. They think casual gamers are losers, hardcore gamers are "jocks", and would like to see the whole gaming world become a homogenous mass of Fez clones and then they have the gall (a la Extra Credits) to spout some platitudes like "But of course we don't want every game to be like 'indie art game X'!" when they just got done telling you how awesome it was and how stupid you are for not playing it.

So of course people outside of gaming think gamers are assholes, the "gamers" with the biggest soap box can't help sniggering and gossiping like fourteen year old girls about DOA "pervs", Mario "manchildren", Gears "dude bros" and suchlike while they saddle up Dear Esther for another playthrough to examine the deep, deep, deep, OMG so deep meaning of walking around in a circle for an hour.

Or put another way, this is all Anthony Carboni's fault. And I say that with not a hint of irony or jest.

Viredae said...

While I am upset at these ads, it's not for the widely raged on reason, I don't think it's stupid because it's acting as if "gamer" is a negative thing, I think it's stupid that no one at Nintendo saw these ads and went: "Hey, won't regular gamers be upset that we're doing?"

I'm upset because Nintendo apparently didn't seem to have the foresight to see this coming, then again, they probably thought that the people complaining would still buy their games, regardless...

Jannie said...

Just for the record, I am a gamer, and I've been a gamer since 1989.

Of course I also had a crush on Tommy from Power Rangers for ten years so what do I know.

Jannie said...

"I'm upset because Nintendo apparently didn't seem to have the foresight to see this coming, then again, they probably thought that the people complaining would still buy their games, regardless..."

I WOULD say that but I also think they really didn't see it coming. It's like the Other M debacle where, apparently, no one stopped at ANY point in the production chain and say "Uh, yeah, this is monstrously offensive to women and the intelligence of our consumers should we like...not do this?"

Or if they did, they were promptly sacked.

I've probably said this before, or I think I did, but you have to understand the Japanese games industry is one where "obedience-to-the-point-of-blindness" is seen as a sane business move, and "homogenous-ness" of thought is seen as the ideal structure (or put more simply, it's like Wall Street over here). So it's possible SOMEONE sane saw this as a problem, but didn't want to get fired by pointing it out...again, just like SOMEONE sane saw the problems with the sub-prime lending nonsense before it hit but they said nothing for fear of losing their position.

The Nag said...

Oh, God :'( Guys, guys... Seriously?

Let me reiterate:

Nintendo isn't saying "gamer" as a term has a negative connotation... Nintendo is saying that "gamer" is too narrow a term.

I remember when I was younger my mother would complain about me being addicted to "playing games on my computer all day". However, I wasn't. I was playing games, listening to music, watching movies, doing research, doing my homework, talking to friends, learning to speak a new language, learning to code, etc.
She failed the grasp the vast array of possibilities open to me on my computer.

Nintendo is trying to point out the same. "Playing games" doesn't mean jack shit. There's dozens of genres of games, hundreds of subgenres, thousands of playstyles, and millions of experiences.

Nintendo is trying to point out calling someone who plays games a "gamer" is like calling everyone a "human". Sure we're all humans, but we're men, women, hetero, gay, bi, short, tall, fat, skinny, etc.

This whole drama about Nintendo voluntarily or not treating "gamer" as if it's a bad thing when talking to non-gamers is just really ridiculous. I think people just stopped thinking rationally, and got sucked up into the drama.
It's human nature to pick sides as fast as possible when getting involved in a conflict. To pick sides before even engaging in rational thought and analysis. It's a survival thing.
So guys, please... stop for a second, have a glass of water, or vodka, clear your mind, and watch the commercial again without trying to read too much into it.

This whole thing is like... my mom telling a friend that she's not just a mother (but also a scientist, woman, wife, etc), and suddenly all the women around would go "Say what?" Shaneequa style and start accusing her of insulting mothers all over the world.

No. Fucking. Sense.

Anonymous said...

"Anyway, I would say I find it hypocritical for NINTENDO of all people to do this, seeing as they effectively depend on brand loyalty for their continued survival, but then again they still seem to have some notion that "we can sell games to people who don't by games if we don't call them games...somehow" which has so many logical holes I'm actually scared that sentence will collapse on itself in a singularity of illogic."

Worked for Nintendogs and Brain Age. What's funny is that Nintendo never talked about "casual games" until the label stuck around 2010 or so. At first they talked about "Non-games" like Nintendogs and Brain Age, which worked to target customers outside of the traditional 12-30 male demographic. This morphed into "casual games" as a pejorative mostly as a response to their SUCCESS as opposed to their actual existence. Then afterward any game Nintendo or anyone else dared to make that didn't "fit in" was labeled as such, even extending the label to games like Mario Kart, New Super Mario Bros., Smash Bros. (SMASH BROS.? For fuck's sake...) and Call of Duty (Which pretty much ENDS the use of "casual" as a descriptor unto itself, really)

What's pretty telling these days is that most discussion of the "hardcore/casual divide" start with a declaration that one of the speakers believes such a thing, in fact, exists. If something so "obvious" needs to be restated every single time it happens, then there are some serious questions to be asked if such a divide's existence rests on a belief of said existence.

Next typically comes the speaker's own personal definition of what constitutes "casual" and "hardcore" and it varies so much between person to person and between time periods, that the words lose all meaning and further discussion is pointless.

So there's the vaunted "hardcore/casual" divide. A raucous whinefest, mostly about perceived slights from multinational corporations for not making 100% of their products in accordance with invisible guidelines set by the loudest of users, signifying nothing.

Anonymous said...

"I WOULD say that but I also think they really didn't see it coming. It's like the Other M debacle where, apparently, no one stopped at ANY point in the production chain and say "Uh, yeah, this is monstrously offensive to women and the intelligence of our consumers should we like...not do this?"

Or if they did, they were promptly sacked."

You know I hear that this game is offensive to women, but, having played the game, I fail to see exactly how it is.

Like, all the controversy made me want to see what the fuss was about, and in between really fun action and exploration, I was looking for sexism like a hawk and I just couldn't find it.

So I went to go see what others said and found I disagreed with a lot of it, particularly when the arguments quickly devolved into throwing TVtropes links around instead of actual discussion, and racist depictions of Japanese people as perverted male shut-ins and "stupid" women (I guess irony wasn't on the menu that day.)

I was also puzzled that these discussion of sexism in games has basically began and ended with Metroid, as games that would have certainly offended these civil rights heroes even more went by totally unnoticed or even applauded (Borderlands 2's "Girlfriend Mode" GTA's use of women as items, Call of Duty's complete erasure of female soldiers, Mass Effect 3's use of an actual real life woman as a sexual conquest)

I wonder why that is.

Sabre said...

Jannie- I made a video about the hypocrisy of so called "art gamers" I think you'll like. :3
http://youtu.be/6voS5neQc88

HippoFest said...

Don't Hate The Game Hate The Player

Dzonatan said...

The ass pain in this is that Nintendo shows sign of moving away from their core audiance and slowly change into something like Microsoft and Sony. By that change they move away from gaming and because of that they spend resources on things that are not games when they are a primary game company themselves.

Games are always about playing games and winning in them.

Anonymous said...

"The ass pain in this is that Nintendo shows sign of moving away from their core audiance and slowly change into something like Microsoft and Sony. By that change they move away from gaming and because of that they spend resources on things that are not games when they are a primary game company themselves.

Games are always about playing games and winning in them."

LOL "showing signs." I guess this is what that above Anon said about the mere existence of these titles being enough to paint Nintendo as having "ABANDONED THE HARDCORE ZOMG"

Give me a fucking break.

And nice narrow as hell definition of "games," shit-for-brains. Tell me something, what does that mean for games like Animal Crossing or GTA or any other sandbox type game where it is entirely possible to play the game with no clear goal and just have whatever fun you can have for 30 minutes before turning the game off?

This is why it's so easy to paint the tardcores as unhinged, whiny, entitled babies. "What, some video games not targeted at my demographic specifically? An ad campaign not aimed at me but at people other than me? The focus has not been on "us" every waking moment?! BOOO PROTEST NINTENDO HAS ABANDONED US FOR THE 5,324th time this year!"

Grow the fuck up, please.

Misterprickly said...

It's like "gamer" is the new social leper?

Are we gonna see people walking around with old-school controllers hung around their necks like some new-aged "scarlet letter"?

Joe said...

I'm with the commenters saying Nintendo's selling immersion and versatility. It'd be like if a campaign to get kids to read had some kid testify, "I'm not a reader, I'm a pirate!" while holding up Treasure Island.

Also, being as oldschool as I am, I will always associate "gamer" first and foremost with tabletop PnP RPGs and wargaming.

Joe said...

@Jannie:

So of course people outside of gaming think gamers are assholes, the "gamers" with the biggest soap box can't help sniggering and gossiping like fourteen year old girls about DOA "pervs", Mario "manchildren", Gears "dude bros" and suchlike while they saddle up Dear Esther for another playthrough to examine the deep, deep, deep, OMG so deep meaning of walking around in a circle for an hour.

Or put another way, this is all Anthony Carboni's fault. And I say that with not a hint of irony or jest.


1) Where do you get the notion that Extra Credits and Anthony Carboni have the "biggest gamer soapboxes" on the internet? They're not even in the top 10 gaming sites. No one in the mainstream culture knows they exist. Why do you even care what they think? If you're looking for places online that will validate your love of Gears or Mario, they are out there if you look for them.

2) Has it occurred to you that EC and Carboni are still around because they have a fanbase? And maybe that fanbase exists because they're not getting what they want from the top 10 sites above? Maybe they're speaking to people who aren't completely satisfied by AAA offerings and are hungry for different experiences? What you're doing is the equivalent of shitting on an Arcade Fire fan because they don't like the Black-Eyed Peas.

Sabre said...

Joe- 1- Escapist and Destructoid are on that list, it could argued that they are part of the high art movement. Though I do believe no one in the mainstream cares about them, or any gaming culture for that matter. See previous comments.

2- I cover that in the video I linked to Jannie. It's to much to go into here (Watch the video, and even for that I had to cut bits so it wasn't to long) but I believe that those people who worship at the church of Extra Credits are people who don't care about games, but want to appear smart and intellectual.

MisterPrickly- "Are we gonna see people walking around with old-school controllers hung around their necks like some new-aged "scarlet letter""
Got to admit, that made me laugh.

Anonymous said...

A) The ad campaign is very clearly not meant for "I'm not one of those icky gamers", but for "I'm playing this game that is so awesome that I forget I'm playing a game, I'm doing something fantastic instead", hence the "coin-collecting champ".

B) It continues to be hilarious to watch Bob slag off "gamer culture" and take shots at "hardcore" gamers while, just a couple weeks ago, he slagged off Rockman Xover as so much trash because it doesn't fit his personal definition of a "proper game". You can't have it both ways Bob, either you identify with this culture or you don't. You can't talk out of both sides of your mouth like that trying to take the high ground every time. You're just as elitist as any of us, you're just elitist about different things.


And for the record? "Gamer" had negative connotations LONG before the days of XBox Live. It may be cathartic for you to try to pin all of gaming's image problems on the FPS crowd you love to hate so much, but "gamer" has conjured images of slovenly, overweight boys (or boys in the body of men) with social and hygiene problems since at least the days of the NES, if not before. That has never changed, and it never will, and that is the root of the animosity you see from "hardcore" or "oldskool" gamers these days: They're mad as hell that the mainstream has barged in to take the things they used to make fun of for themselves, and still make fun of the people that have been there longer while they're at it.

Crimson said...

To Saber about Extra Credits:

My first reaction to your tripe was, of course, "fuck you up the ass with a rusty spork, you overdeveloped cumstain!" And then once I started to calm down, I still disagreed with you. I have watched EVERY SINGLE episode of Extra Credits, and I've researched the people that make the show. They do not need my defense, mind you, but this bloated opinion of yours that the people who watch the show don't care about games? Absolutely without basis. I watch the show; I watch Overthinker, Escape to the Movies and Big Picture. I watch No Punctuation and almost anything from the folks at LRR. I have played games of every kind, style and genre for the past 26 years, covering just-about EVERY SINGLE console ever distributed in North America. I love games and my best-bro loves games just as much, having beaten the original LoZ when he was two!

So I say again, sir. Fuck your opinion up the ass with a rusty spork, because you speak ONLY for yourself. Not for any gamer I know.

Nixou said...

"I watch the show; I watch Overthinker, Escape to the Movies and Big Picture. I watch No Punctuation and almost anything from the folks at LRR."

And no one badmouth the good folks at LRR

Anonymous said...

@Crimson

Yeah Sabre's a pretty pompous twat. His videos that he keeps pimping around here are fucking terrible.

I can respect that he still has the balls to show his face around here after another commenter tore into his shitty videos in a previous comment section, but showing up is only part of the battle.

Anonymous said...

EC, Moviebob and the like spout OPINIONS.

Opinions are not indefensible.

chewbie said...

since the movie industry sees gaming/the internet as competition (rightfully so), they jump at every opportunity to present gamers as antisocial unsanitary assholes. It's not the brats on XBox Live or the Rad Bad fucking Mad college students who created the stereotype but the movie industry did. From NCIS to Dexter, gamers tend to be presented in a disgusting light. Internet killed the TV star and they're finding it hard to deal with

chewbie said...

since the movie industry sees gaming/the internet as competition (rightfully so), they jump at every opportunity to present gamers as antisocial unsanitary assholes. It's not the brats on XBox Live or the Rad Bad fucking Mad college students who created the stereotype but the movie industry did. From NCIS to Dexter, gamers tend to be presented in a disgusting light. Internet killed the TV star and they're finding it hard to deal with

chewbie said...

since the movie industry sees gaming/the internet as competition (rightfully so), they jump at every opportunity to present gamers as antisocial unsanitary assholes. It's not the brats on XBox Live or the Rad Bad fucking Mad college students who created the stereotype but the movie industry did. From NCIS to Dexter, gamers tend to be presented in a disgusting light. Internet killed the TV star and they're finding it hard to deal with

chewbie said...

since the movie industry sees gaming/the internet as competition (rightfully so), they jump at every opportunity to present gamers as antisocial unsanitary assholes. It's not the brats on XBox Live or the Rad Bad fucking Mad college students who created the stereotype but the movie industry did. From NCIS to Dexter, gamers tend to be presented in a disgusting light. Internet killed the TV star and they're finding it hard to deal with

Sabre said...

Crimson- I speak for myself and the gamers I know, who are sick of the retro nostalgia, ad worshipping PR mouth pieces, and navel gazing nonsense being held up as deep and meaningful. If you disagree, I'd like to know why, rather than just insults.

This line was most telling though
"They do not need my defense, mind you, but this bloated opinion of yours that the people who watch the show don't care about games? Absolutely without basis."
My opinion on the matter DOES have basis, and I spent a whole video explaining the reasons. It is clear to me by your reaction that either you didn't watch it, or you have no basis for YOUR opinion.

I've had people disagree with my videos and bring up some good, and valid points, but so far, the few comments here have been little more than insults and swearing.

Not to mention this is way off topic. This is meant to be about the "not a gamer" adverts, not some video I made.

Crimson said...

Rebuttal to Saber:

Well, Saber, since you decided to continue your statement, I will continue mine. And to be blunt, such half-baked thoughts as what you spouted do deserve said insults when they group together a large sum of people in derogatory terms. In essence, this IS on topic, because of the similar tactics used by those that defame the term "gamer" into a negative stereotype; you are copying those that others are pointing out as wrong and abusive. Good for you.

But let's look at your rebuttal, shall we? For example, I never mentioned your video. Not once. So you have a video explaining your opinion... and that makes it more valid HOW exactly? Granted, I did cuss to make mine, so on that we are on equal terms.

However, you mention "retro nostalgia ad-worshipping PR mouthpieces", right? Funny, because I've yet to see any positive comments about nostalgia in Extra Credits in opposition to newer titles, with the exception of an exposition on game music and its' evolution. Which happened to PRAISE current musical pieces in current-gen games as much as the older tunes. Now, about advertising worship... well, this whole topic is about how marketers are using negative stereotypes in a positive way and how tragic it is that something like this is being done. Furthermore, once more, advertising isn't used much at all in Extra Credits. Soooo... yeah, your opinions on that are complete bullshit. Pardon my language. You'll have to define "navel gazing nonsense", though. I have no idea what you call nonsense, but I'd imagine that your local mirror can provide an example. Whoops.

Now, once more, I haven't seen your video; I don't really care to. I could probably tear that apart just as easily as I am your rebuttal. Which isn't hard at all, mind you, but once more, your opinions in these comments are indeed without valid basis. You speak of the gamers you know, yes? Fine. I did the same. How many are those? Oh, and did you research the people who make EC as well? You know, who James Portnow is, what he's done in the industry, et cetera... you've gotten ALL your ducks in a row, right? Because if you're just basing your opinions on your OWN ideas about what YOU think games should be, and what YOU think "love of games" should include... well, that's not really a valid public opinion. There's a saying that everyone has an opinion and an asshole. Learn from that, will you?

Oh, and by the way, after typing the first few paragraphs, I DID WATCH your oral commentary. I had to fight laughter all the way through. This sounds like your own complaints about a certain sub-class of people that target a specific area of gaming. For example, you talk about Spec Ops, showcasing the EC episodes on it, accusing them of following the indie flag. Though you do say that you haven't played the game (hint, hint) and give some mild concessions, you bring up often that it wasn't a blockbuster, stating a paranoia that games that make money would never be considered "art" by them. Have you heard of the Persona series, ser?

Because I can tell you right now, EC did more than a few episodes about Persona 3 and P4, which were both BIG sales markets, garnering high praise all around... and they are both considered games that tell a deeper storyline about the human condition. Extra Credits has even made an episode talking about how 'art games can be fun'! Games being artistic never precludes enjoyment or enforces sour gameplay. I told you before, I have over two decades of experience in playing games. I review games for GameFly. You, sir, are not even a BLIP on my radar. Crawl back down under your rock, where you belong.

Crimson.

Jannie said...

Sabre:

Saw your video, you make some excellent points, I've actually mused about similar things myself in the past. One that immediately leaps to mind is the sheer homogeneity of these indie games--it really is shocking how many are just reiterating the same thing over and over and over, laboring a point to the most extreme degree possible.

I'd also argue this mentality applies to people who want to look "politically correct" or socially progressive without thinking what, if anything, that means. It's the same reason why people criticize Dead or Alive for being "sexist" because the characters have large breasts, but never stop to see if the characters are, in fact, sexist or not. For example if you go by, say, the Bechdel test most if not ALL the female characters in DOA and other usual targets like Lara Croft would pretty much pass with flying colors. But oh, no, no...see, they have (admittedly unrealistic) breasts so obviously it's sexist.

I probably have harped on that before, but really, it's irksome. Also I'm a Tina Armstrong fan and I find her character--effectively a variant on the "rebellious princess" mixed with some kind of mythical amazon mixed with pro wrestling of all things--to be very interesting, breast implants notwithstanding.

And of course it's always beyond any kind of critique. If someone says it's boring or poorly made or the game mechanics don't work, then suddenly it's made as a "satire". I'm reminded of how the dude who made The Room started calling it a "satire" after everyone pointed out it was bad enough to cause several different kinds of cancer.

Though...if Superman 64 WAS intended as a comment on the drudgery of being a godlike being when everyone constantly needs your help, that would make the game almost worth trudging through. It's not, but neither are the minigames in No More Heroes about, well, anything at all really.

One thing you said I hadn't even thought or realized yet, and it hit me all of a sudden when you said it, was that these guys never seem to find a "bad" art game. Every SINGLE one is a brilliant, life-changing experience whose only close competitor is the one immediately before/after it. It's interesting to consider but in retrospect I've never heard anyone say that The Blank failed to express whatever emotion it was aiming for.

Anyway very good points, very thoughtfully laid out. Also, cool dragon mohawk dude :)

Jannie said...

Crimson, stop being so fucking dense, you're acting like a brat. YOU were the one who started off this discussion with "fuck you with a spork cumstain" or some such nonsense, that's not even an insult that's what a tween yells when he realizes how to curse for the first time. You don't think call someone else "immature" or whatever the hell you're trying to say, when YOU start off by screaming incoherent clusters of obscenities at them. Christ.

Anyway...

Anon:

I'm not going over what is sexist about Other M again, cause it's one of those things that people either agree about or not, but in brief when your female character is begging a man to LET HER defend herself that's not exactly progressive. That's just the tip of the ice berg though.

As to the claim that women "don't exist" in Modern Warfare, that's true but it's indicative of another, separate problem. It's also true that most games don't have KIDS in them either (or make them invulnerable, i.e. Skyrim) and that's because they don't want to have to explain why OMG YOU CAN KILL WOMEN/KIDS/WHATEVER in the game, which is precisely what would happen if you could.

Parents groups and religious fundamentalists got bent out of shape over Night Trap which was a game with NO sex where you SAVE women (from vampires in latex gimp suits if memory serves), and companies learned to just not fight that fight. Now that's cowardly and stupid, but perception is reality and these companies made the choice (and I'm not here to defend it, just pointing this out) of simply not allowing kids to die, or women to be present in a war zone, and hoping the issue just goes away.

GTA is just about "shocking" people, like Saints Row. It's meant only to be crudely offensive. Nothing about it should or can be taken even remotely seriously. I've said this before but in those sandbox games, including Infamous and Prototype too, the fast travel system is basically hijacking a military helicopter and dive bombing a bus full of nuns...it's not meant to reflect the real world or any sane human being's idea of the real world.

And that Gearbox thing was just ONE douchebag saying something stupid, which the company immediately disavows. If you want to call THAT GUY a douchebag fine, no argument from me, but you can't then extrapolate that into the company as a whole or the actual game itself. It's not like Dead Island when, right there in the game, it has sexist remarks about women (or it did, anyway) it's just one guy's brainfart.

ALL of that is completely separate from and distinctly less--to varying degrees--insulting than having the main character of the series, who previously was portrayed as a courageous and selfless person, turn into a weeping little girl who needs a man to tell her what to do lest she hurt herself.

The only thing similar is the GTA thing, which admittedly would be pretty damning, if GTA was intended as anything OTHER THAN a mockery of "gritty" crime movies. That's like saying the scene in Airplane! where the stewardess gives the "Otto Pilot" a blow job is sexist, it was never meant to be taken as anything but a crude joke. Arguably, it would be sexist, or at least offensive, if the intention of the author was anything but to shock and mock sensibilities.

I'm sorry but that's not the same thing. And even if it WERE, even if ALL of that were the same thing, what is your point? Pointing out that "sexism exists" is not a rebuttal to someone calling out a game over being sexist. That's like me saying Birth of a Nation is racist and you say "Yeah well, the Nazis made a lot of antisemitic propaganda OOOH BURN!!!"

Jannie said...

Joe:

Well, Arcade Fire is shit, but not because the Black Eyed Peas are exactly raising hell.

Be that as it may, I'm once again reminded of this notion of how gamers are "hungry for different experiences" and yet, most of the indie crowd seem to be content with games that are either identical or otherwise have the same basic idea but different graphics. There are literally enough "walk linearly forward and let me explain to you why life is pointless and bleak" games to become a genre onto themselves. That's not "hungry for different experiences" that's a, well, A GENRE. No really, things like The Passage are now not just common but the tropes are approaching uniform, and that's just one example.

There are likewise almost enough "walk in a circle while I explain about my treatise on life, the universe and everything" to be declared a genre onto itself too, Dear Escher and Journey being just the two most famous examples. If these people want new, untested experiences they sure picked a crazy way to show it: repeating the same experience over and over again.

Ironically I'm reminded of something Bob said about the (awful, shitty, incoherent) movie Branded being that the word "pretentious" is now, in his opinion, used erroneously to describe any film that has "something to say". Well in part that's true, but that's because, you must realize, that people can only have so much to say--most "important" things have either already been said, said better, and are now cliche. I'm sure whoever came up with the now-cliche "rescue the princess" genre thought he had something to say about chivalry and courtly love and devotion...1000 years ago. Now it's just superfluous.

If these games are attempting to say something relevant, they're failing it, because they're saying either something that's been said before or saying it in such an obnoxious and self-important manner as to be impenetrable to those not inclined to such already.

It's like, Spec Ops the Line is basically saying "war is bad and people go crazy when pushed too far". To which the entire population of Earth said "No Really!?!?"

That's not a revelation, that's a cliche. It was a cliche thousands of years ago when it was called "The Iliad" but at least in that, Zeus doesn't brow beat the reader and tell you you're pathetic for reading it.

It's perhaps somewhat nihilistic sounding to say that every idea has already being used up, but the reality is that even the games that LOOK completely unique are treading very well-trod ground already: books, a medium that got a few millennia head start on games, have been retreading these notions of the (alleged) futility of life and the horrors of death and war and so on for thousands of years. Like I said that was basically the whole point of The Iliad, among other incredibly ancient stories.

You don't need The Passage to tell you that life is short, the Bible, thousands of years old, says that and so do a hundred other books, movies and the like. If you really only JUST NOW realized how short life was because of a crudely designed video game that speaks to a wholly different problem: namely that you needed The Passage to make you realize life has a finite span. But even if that were the case do we need SEVERAL more games like it, because there are.

There are also several games that are basically "move geometric shapes, it's symbolic" and several others which are "this bleak platformer with weird mechanics is symbolic of love or whatever". They can't ALL have the EXACT same level of relevance...one or more of them must be just a rip-off or a cash in.

Crimson said...

To Jannie:

I find it interesting that you would run to Saber's defense, when in looking at your comments, you seems to be the exact kind of person he was insulting earlier, both in his video and in his earlier statements. Fascinating. However, since you obviously didn't read my rebuttal to him, based on your own statement, I already mentioned that he and I are on equal terms when it came to our presentation. He believed his opinion was superior because he had a YT vid, and I thought mine was superior because I decided to cuss him out. Fair is fair, all around. Oh, and really... I never called him immature, and I am not acting like a brat; neither is he. For how incorrect his opinion is when presented with facts, he has a right to it. Saber simply can not state it as either a fact or a majority opinion, that's all. Please, stop trying to defend him; I doubt he needs a fanbase.

While some of your comments are relevant and accurate... dear lord, try to stop being so defeatist. Not that I'm a fan of political correctness myself, but sometimes content is taken too far for the general public in either the advertising or the game itself; that's why we have rating systems in place. And while anyone would be hard-pressed to find genuinely authentic "NEW" content anywhere, just because a story has been told before does not make it irrelevant or cliche. Read some Joseph Cambell or look up Jungian psychology; you'll see what I mean. But now things are getting REALLY off-topic, so that's all I have to say. And by the way, yeah, I've seen some TERRIBLE "art games"... it's just that I stop playing them when I find little to interest me in doing so. But then you have to ask, how do you define an art-game? Myself, I think Bastion nailed it right on the head on all accounts, and Persona is always a good wager. Something to think about, ne?

Nixou said...

«It's like, Spec Ops the Line is basically saying "war is bad and people go crazy when pushed too far". To which the entire population of Earth said "No Really!?!?" 

That's not a revelation, that's a cliche.»

And one just has to watch how the american public grows defensive when told that some of their beloved soldiers grow mad or suicidal with PTSD and can commit war crimes or rape their own comrades to realize that this "cliché" is not told often enough.

Anonymous said...

@Jannie

"I'm not going over what is sexist about Other M again, cause it's one of those things that people either agree about or not, but in brief when your female character is begging a man to LET HER defend herself that's not exactly progressive. That's just the tip of the ice berg though."

That's a bit specious, isn't it? You're deliberately generalizing in order to create an appearance of an issue that targets feminist outrage. However, when the details are added, as in the "man" in question is in charge and giving orders and Samus is following them because she is not in charge, it loses a bit of it's patriarchal edge, doesn't it? It would be like my sister calling her boss a sexist pig because he won't let her eat without his express permission. As in, she wants to take an early lunch but he said "No, lunch is at Noon." And you're right, I don't agree with you, and apparently most people don't agree either, because after the dust settled and the idiots shut their loud mouths, most people don't really see what the big deal was in the first place.

"GTA is just about "shocking" people, like Saints Row. It's meant only to be crudely offensive. Nothing about it should or can be taken even remotely seriously. "

So because it's not meant to be taken seriously, it's not horrendously offensive to women? WTF? Besides, in GTA IV, the game took a more serious turn and tone. I believe the games press called the script "Oscar-worthy," but women are still objects in it. What then?

"ALL of that is completely separate from and distinctly less--to varying degrees--insulting than having the main character of the series, who previously was portrayed as a courageous and selfless person, turn into a weeping little girl who needs a man to tell her what to do lest she hurt herself. "

Actually, I disagree. Disregarding your attempt to jumble events and paint the story as sexist, Samus is still a courageous and selfless (whatever that can mean in the context of a setting with aliens in it) woman in Other M, definitely skilled. Despite showing OMG Girly weakness in a cutscene, she still jumps on heads and sticks guns in mouths and pulls the trigger. Really, not much as changed. It even passes that silly Bechdel test too, doesn't it?

On the other hand, the casual association with women as health pickups that you can then beat to death is definitely more sexist than a narrative not being 100% female-empowerment. I mean it's nopt like she's talking about shopping or baking cookies or something. Christ. I think you're also forgetting that Samus, despite your distaste for the narrative, is still the main character of Other M, and drives most if not all the action forward and defeats all the bosses, etc, etc. You're saying games that have either no female characters in it at all or have them as window dressing/health pickups are less offensive than a game that stars one? Whatever.

I also notice you didn't even touch on Mass Effect 3. You know, the one with a character modeled on Jessica Chobot. Whom the presumably male Cmdr. Shepard can fuck. This is a textbook case of sexual objectification and it got literally zero mention in games press, both mainstream and indie.

I'm not simply saying "sexism exists." I'm somewhat implying myopia on your and the western games press's part concerning sexism in games, particularly when it comes to Japanese games, for reaons I'll elucidate.

Anonymous said...

I've seen way more accusations of sexism in video games lobbed at Japanese games than at Western games, which is something of an ironic thing because Japanese developers tend to fill their games with female avatars and player characters.

Most of these complaints center around clothing or attitude (girls sometimes act like girls! Shocking, I know...) or the fact that some games like DOA like to play up the cheesecake factor involved in their (quite many I should say, female characters). Since apparently you don't think Tina Armstrong is a sexist depiction of a character, despite her prancing around for male titillation in not one but THREE games where she does nothing but lie around in a swimsuit, I find it puzzling that you would have misgivings about potential meanings of subtext (which by the way, means things NOT said, but could be inferred) of Other M, but can tolerate a fighting game with such blatant objectification in its main games and especially its spinoffs.

If anything, Japanese developed games tend to have wide and varied female cast members, from little girls to middle aged women, with a wide variety of attitudes and outlooks, usually as members of an ensemble cast, but frequently main characters. This is more reflective of reality than most western developed games, in which the female character is either a stereotypical ball-busting badass, a victim to drive the narrative, or just background dressing.

Which is why it's so funny to hear Americans accuse Japanese developers of sexism based typically on superficial things like costumes and stylistic images and stuff. In the Other M case, it's pretty easy to see some reviewers not happy that a Japanese developer was making the next Metroid game a throwback character action game instead of another First Person Shooter. And considering the choice of developer, they were probably already looking out for sexist things in the game, definitely moreso than usual.

Whats funny is that, Authorization, Samus taking direct orders from men, Samus feeling emotions, and Samus inexplicably needing to be saved my men (generalizations all, sure, but the point is clear) were all present in Metroid Prime 3. Samus takes orders from Admiral Dane, and continues to for parts of the game. Rundas says that the Federation has "authorized" use of their ships, which would have probably been more handy to fight on that space station than to do it on foot. Rundas is also the savior of Samus when she's falling down a tube after fighting Ridley. Typical sexist drivel, right? And in the end, Samus has a moment of contemplative sadness over her lost comrades, some of whom she barely even know, making this probably a more sexist depiction if we're talking subtext.

So what was different between Metroid Prime 3 and Other M? Aside from camera perspective, country of origin. And voila, suddenly plot and gameplay elements from the previous game are suddenly sexist. I certainly hope the critics of Other M, Team Ninja, Tecmo, and Nintendo aren't being racially motivated. While nothing is stated directly, the subtext is pretty shocking to say the least.

Megabyte said...

@Crimson: "I review games for GameFly. You, sir, are not even a BLIP on my radar."

Are you paid by them to do reviews? Or are you a hobbist? Not be side-track, but you do reaslize if that is your job, you are being paid by thieves, right?

http://fronttowardsgamer.com/2012/03/18/only-on-pc-gamefly/

I wouldn't be bragging about working for these assholes. And btw... checkout their D2D facebook page (linked in the comments... STILL claiming "be patient... we are almost a year later)... fucking thieves.

@Sabre: Think you could link us to the EC video you made? Only ones I've seen of yours are the fem frequency thing... and for how little I hear of her now it seems you were right.

@Jannie: Honestly, I don't see sexism in Other M. What you see as her being told she can't defend herself, I see as her understanding just how dangerous her weapons are. We have never seen her work with a group before this point... even Prime 3 she just sort of runs along side 2 other hunters... much less as part of a military unit. It stands to reason she would except restrictions in such times...

I mean hell, didn't the very opening of the game show them have to seal off the room to teach you to use the SuperBomb? You think that wasn't making a point of how much power she wields?

Though they were perhaps a bit much at times since this is also how they decided to try to give better reason to her "losing her shit" at the beginning of the game besides her armor is somehow damaged or "none at all, she just doesn't have them anymore...nope." Game mechanics, especially tradition to franchises from the 80s, don't always adapt cleanly to being given story-based reasons to exist.

Nixou said...

Actually, GTA IV is not about shocking people. That charge could be levelled at the earlier episodes of the series, but the fourth instalment is a carefully and deliberatly crafted satire targetting the internal contradictions of the "american dream". It's only "shocking" for people who take pointing the warts on Uncle Sam's face as a personal insult.

On the subject of objectification of women in this particular game: I'd say that it is one of the most brilliant aspect of the game's story-telling: the gameplay objectifies women because the main character objectifies women, which, given what happened in the Bosnian War, is not at all surprising. And this is a brilliant way to tell the game's story: the way Niko treat women in the game is one of the clues "hidden in plain side" that the protagonist is in fact a war criminal on the run: the game reminds the player a very important plot point at every turn without ever falling into the boring didtatic exposition.

*

Regarding Other M: the problem is not that Samus display emotion, the problem is that most expressed emotion is "crippling daddy issues".

Although, personally, I had more of a problem with Adam: he witness the arrival of someone he knows is
- more skilled
- way more well armed
- has a brain filled with the culture, and lore, and history, and technology of feathered demigods way more advanced that the federation he serves
A the one thing he does is: starting a power trip.
And he's supposed to be one of the most brilliant minds of Mankind history... So I suppose Metroid happens in the future of Idiocracy.

Also "what was different between Metroid Prime 3 and Other M?"
Monologues
Those fucking "let's tell the backstory for those who are too lazy to consult a wiki and the current story to those who are to dense t understand what's happening on screen" monologues

Megabyte said...

@Crimson... sorry... posted in the article... not the comments.

Aiddon said...

Nixou, consulting a Wiki should NEVER be expected of an audience in any medium. That's INSANE

Sabre said...

Megabyte- I posted the link earlier, but I think you might be thinking of someone else. I haven't done a video on Feminism, mainly because, well, it's a weird subject. The radical "Everything a man likes is sexist!" types like Feminist Frequency don't seem to represent, for lack of a better word, sane people, who have views that make alot more sense to me.

I also have a controversial view on the subject of feminism (and racism) which is that true acceptance and tolerance comes from apathy. As in, being tolerant or accepting implies some undesirable difference you are putting up with in order to be nice, whereas apathy implies that there either is no difference, or there is a difference that you don't give a crap about.

I also believe that sexy is not sexist, and that instead of bashing DoA for it's giant boobs, that the proper reaction should be to demand DoA hunks in shorts edition. Pre order, and unlock Solid Snake and a special rose scented lotion.

Anonymous said...

"On the subject of objectification of women in this particular game: I'd say that it is one of the most brilliant aspect of the game's story-telling: the gameplay objectifies women because the main character objectifies women, which, given what happened in the Bosnian War, is not at all surprising."

What the fuck? So if it's "in context" it's okay? What the flipping shit? Nobody cared about the context of Metroid. It was all "OMG Samus is in a game and there's a man in it and she talks to the man and the man tells her to do something! Might as well have told her to go back into the kitchen and make him a sammich!"

But when it comes to blatant, open sexualization and objectification everybody's all "Oh dear look at the context of the main character being from Bosnia oh and btw the game's not Serious Bizness so eat shit."

It's funny when hardcore gamers try their hands at bigger issues in the world. It's so cute when they fail at it.

"Although, personally, I had more of a problem with Adam:"

Oh come the fuck on, it's a game, dude. They tried to get more serious with the story, but people are treating this like they tried to write "Gilgamesh" or something. What with all these in-depth character analysis and essays and shit.

Well you don't have to worry about Nintendo trying to write complex stories anymore, after the weapons grade reaction to both Other M and Skyward sword by fierce criticism. They'll have to endure being called simplistic nostalgia-whores again, but it's better than having your whole country called sexist. I know I wouldn't try it anymore.

That's what's so amazing to me. Nobody even respected the effort. Nintendo's not perfect but they are one the the only companies I've ever seen that actually responds to their fanbase's requests of them. Want Xenoblade? Done. Last Story? Done. You want Metroid to come back after 8 years? Done. Kid Icarus? Done. Pikmin? Ditto. Want our games to have more storyline? Have Other M, Kid Icarus, and Skyward Sword. Less storyline? NSMB and Donkey Kong Jungle Beat.

It's pretty remarkable how Nintendo reacts to their own criticism, in an age of video game "artistes" cramming shit down your throat and telling you to suck it like BioWare and Activision, Nintendo actually responds and takes notes.

Just be careful what you wish for. Nintendo could contract Epic to make the next Metroid and have her be all macho badass because that's apparently what she was in Metroid II or something. And they'll then have to deal with the same bullshit (probably from the same people) about how they ruined her character again because she has to be more "feminine" or something.

Jesus Christ.

Manticore said...

The thing with Tina is one I'd, though I know we disagree, I would say happened to Samus in the public reaction to Other M.

Madonna-Whore syndrome. Since the girls are deliberately marketed as sexual objects they are degenrated in the discussion as such (ref. the Booth babe debate, as if sexy female presenters at trade shows are something Gamers in the specific and gaming in general has to uniquely apologize or correct as to say Cheerleading or automobile mags or auto tradeshows)

There should be discussion but their isn't Given half of point to be morally condemnative in the common culture on, people grasp it (note people remark on samus's needing rescue demeaning her in one breath but Anthony in the other is praised but Adam and Sakamoto faulted. Interesting how that turned out). Its easy to run a righteous crusade especially on the socially maligned and especially self-effacing and self-conscious nerd with their social fallacies being easily exploited by females in the hobby some who *may* feel entitled to take alpha femme position

(to be clear I am not happy with the G4 Heffler review which canned OTher M so hard BUUUT. she had valid points in her follow up.)

Right now we have more people shouting but not saying what's bothering them and alot of the largest and loudest condemnations are from nerds so if you translate its nerds establishing a pecking order to distance themselves from what they feel are the shameful aspects of themselves more than actual feminism which is the contemplation and dialogue for equality to breakdown and examine issues caused by gender.

Guys don't want their pinup girls in public so protest (and sincerely especially if they are "over" that) Women are more numerous but feeling herded and ya very underfire and hazing of the worst sort. ITs a mess

Sabre said...

Anon- "What the fuck? So if it's "in context" it's okay? What the flipping shit?"

Yes.

Context pretty much matters, always.
"I'm going to cut you" sounds evil and menacing, but in context...
"I'm going to cut you a slice of cake. Want icing?" suddenly not so.

American History X. Take any of the early parts of that film, and it could be taken as pro racism and pro nazi. In the context of the film itself, not really. If anything it is a condemnation of neo-nazi ideals.

How about Mass Effect, where the mainstream media took a sex scene out of context and used it to paint the game as a hardcore pornography game.

A final example of why context matters. The lack of context and unusual word choice makes this funny.
http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/129024958437303523.jpg

Anonymous said...

@Sabre

I believe the Anon's use of quotations around "in context" shows he probably doesn't believe there to be sufficient context in GTA4 itself to explain its rather harshly sexist treatment of women.

I somewhat agree, it seems like a rather convenient excuse to hide behind the gritty crime story to excuse some pretty blatant textbook sexual objectification.

Also since we're talking about Other M, and most of the sexism-based criticism (particularly from Jannie) seems that have been purposefully decontexutalized in order to paint a sexist narrative, I'd say it's pretty fair game to analyze any sort of video game under the same standards.

What's troubling isn't that people find Other M sexist. What's puzzling is the rather blatant sexism in other games that they're willing to run defense for, if not ignore or handwave outright.

It makes the critics seems either totally ignorant of the subject of gender critique or totally disingenuous. If you don't like Other M, don't like it. But don't act like your hatred is part of some civil rights struggle. That's, to put it mildly, totally absurd.

Anonymous said...

Agreeing with Anon 5:04 am about Other M. I personally LAMBASTED the game for my review.... not because it was sexist, but because it failed as a Metroid game.

http://brutalgamer.com/2010/09/14/metroid-other-m-wii-review/

-Megabyte

Anonymous said...

RE: Other M.

A) Other M was a terrible Metroid game, even before you get into debates about its story or message.

A.i) It was not terrible solely because it wasn't an FPS, so don't even try to be stupid like that. Super Metroid was the greatest video game ever made and it wasn't an FPS. Metroid Prime was a phenomenal video game, a phenomenal Metroid game, and just happened to be an FPS. Other M was garbage.


B) The 'sexism' people are talking about with Other M is not something as stupid and simple as "She can't use her bombs until Adam says so!". It is things like not being able to use the Varia Suit, a completely defensive add-on, without his say-so and thus suffering for an inordinate period of time at the arbitrary whims of a man. It is things like Adam stopping her from going to Sector Zero not by saying "Hey, Samus, stop for a minute! Don't go in there!", but by shooting her in the back. With an enemy present in the room. It is things like Samus being infantilized in the face of Ridley, a monster she has destroyed several times already no matter what version of the series canon you accept (she can't be surprised he's there, she can't be surprised he's still alive), and having never had this reaction before.

B.i) No, the reason she never reacted like that when being faced with Ridley before is not "technology limitations". That is insulting to the brilliant people that worked on Super Metroid, Zero Mission, Fusion, and all of the Prime games. They had all the technology they needed to portray something like that, and never did, because it was never a part of the character before Other M.

Anonymous said...

Told [X]

Not Told []

Sabre said...

Anon 5:04- Ah. I see. My mistake.

Anonymous said...

@Anon 3:40:

A) Agreed... it was a shitty Metroid first and formost.

B) Shooting Samus ONLY makes sense if you accept her previous personification. She has agreed to his orders, but they know each other... and while he may have "told her" it was to keep her out of the sector... I would suspect it was so she couldn't stop him from basically sacrificing himself to destroy it.

However, before we talk about her fear against Ridley, let's get one thing straight.... it is entirely possible she is shocked that after she finally KILLED HIM after so many confrontations where he should have died, her actions directly brought him back!

Let's go to the games in order of timeline:

Metroid: Killed him...

Metroid Prime: Sorry, he wasn't dead yet... rescued and rebuilt cybernetically. She wouldn't freak because it's pretty obvious how he survived.

Metroid Prime Hunters: dont think any pirates were actually there

Metroid Prime 2: not there

Metroid Prime 3: while away from the main pirates, he met Dark Samus and was introduced to major Phazon radiation as a result. That just made him a mutant... this explains quite a bit so far.

Metroid 2: Not there

Super Metroid: I've heard theories that he is a clone or the son of the original. I suspect son because watching him disintegrate in Prime 3 would mean it's VERY tough to come back... so I would expect her to freak out at THAT point if it was still him.

Other M: If you notice, he was EATING the bosses she killed as he went along to become Ridley. She not only watched the murderer of her family who should finally be dead with no lifelines left come back from the damn grave, but her actions helped bring him back! Im pretty sure her reaction is justified.

-Megabyte

Nixou said...

This is slightly off topic but...

Bob: a word on the "Doritogate"?

hazlenaut said...

When I heard that I looked back and look at the history. There have been several negatives things that happen, including Negligent, insensitive, extremist people that have taken the fun out of it that call themselves gamers. I wonder if they have taken more of an effect than I have thought.
Do other peoples fear contact with others or to be associated with that word. I feel someone another perspective is needed. What if they are running out of ideas and they are expanding the audience so they can do their one last hurrah. Perhaps being called gamer is limiting as many cry stick with the same. I can speak allot of possibilities, but most would be unlikely or perhaps one them is the one that leaved a mark.

Aiddon said...

oh, people bringing up Other M again and halfassedly trying to pass off their petty complaints as an indictment of sexism. How quaint

Anonymous said...

Oh look, Aiddon being a condescending, hypocrite. How predictable.