Tuesday, June 7, 2011

TANOOKI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Been a long time, old friend...



Yes, of course, I'm very excited about the WiiU - basically a jacked-up 360 controlled with an iPad that runs first-party Nintendo software too - but c'mon, how can this NOT be the highlight of E3 for me?

36 comments:

Smashmatt202 said...

So it IS a tanooki suit, and not a racoon suit.

Also, is it just me, or did that boss Mario was fighting look like Boom Boom?

Ezequiel said...

That's from mario 3 right? why is it so important?

Dave from canada said...

@ Ezequiel

Its from his childhood, which means it was perfect and infallible and you are stupid for not liking it as much as him.

It's pretty sad that sony's handheld displayed more innovation and understanding of how a platform should be made than either of nintendo's new offerings.

Aiddon said...

and this is just one of the reasons why Nintendo kicked the crap out of both of its competitors at E3 this year. Not that the "hardcore" will ever admit that.

MovieBob said...

@Dave from canada

The PSVita looks like quite a product - definitely more promising upfront than the PS3, for example.

I want to see some software, though - the PSP seemed like a terrific bet at the time, but they never really figured out that handhelds need a solid library of titles designed FOR portable gaming. If it's just going to be downscaled-PS3 ports, it's not gonna fly. Also, AT&T-only for the wifi is BULLSHIT.

imsmart said...

@Smashmatt202
It looks like the appearance of the tanooki suit, but the powers of the raccoon suit. That is just annoying. I fucking hate marketers.
And holy crap, it is Boom Boom!!!

Pat said...

@MovieBob

I'm nit-picking, but it's AT&T for the 3G, not the WiFi.

@Dave from canada

Uh, what innovation? Don't get me wrong, the PSVita looks well put-together, but I'm not really seeing anything that hasn't been done before. Understanding, sure. Well, maybe for the most part. Like Bob said, if they get a substantial library, it will be hard to resist once the price comes down, but that's a big "if" considering how it took them about 7 years to get enough good games for the PSP to justify my purchase of that device.

Meanwhile, I will say that the Wii U is showing a great deal of innovation. It's hard to make a judgment call on their understanding until we get more details, hands-on experience, and a price, but it's hard to deny that they are trying some crazy shit with this new platform. I'm interested, but Nintendo is walking a fine line between genius and insanity with this new system.

DocStout said...

The strategy of taking a generation to expand their customer base by appealing to a wider audience and then following up with a console to capture the hearts (and dollars) of that audience AND the traditional video gamer may well work out very, very well for them. Great keynote this year.

Daniel R said...

Once Mario Galaxy came out with its own variation on suits I knew it was inevitable.
Not that I'm complaining though. Not at all. :)

In my opinion Nintendo has just about done everything that needed to be done regarding the announcement of the Wii U.
i.e;
They kept the "Wii" branding which basically ensures a very large chunk of sales.
They made a controller that not only invites the eye of a 'casual' player but allows some terrific 'hardcore' games to be made.
They designed their console and its lineup to introduce 'casual' players to more 'hardcore' games.
They -supposedly- revamped their online system.
They're on better terms with third party developers who will -hopefully- take advantage of the console's features.
They 'announced' a new Smash Bros.
THEY ANNOUNCED A NEW SMASH BROS!

then again
I may be a tad over-enthusiastic to give an impartial opinion.

Aqua said...

Okay Bob, I know how crazy you are about Tanooki, and I'm happy for you and all, but I just don't care. One look at that video, and I knew that I was going to end up giving all of my next year's salary to Nintedo. THAT, is the SINGLE GREATEST looking Mario game I've seen since 64. (Because Sunshine was fun but repetetive, and Galaxy gave me a headache and lacked structure which most Mario games do, so the fact that it had less than usual just lost me)

Dave from canada said...

@ BOB

"I want to see some software, though - the PSP seemed like a terrific bet at the time, but they never really figured out that handhelds need a solid library of titles designed FOR portable gaming."

The 3DS' biggest titles are ports of n64 games. It doesn't get any less designed for portable play than a game literally designed for a console.

The major problem with the psp was that with a pitiful battery life, and that most of its library was ps2 games that by nature of its limited controls, had to be dumbed down.

The PSV has neither problem. It has a better battery life than the 3ds, and it can do everything from a control standpoint the ps3 can do. The only difference is the graphical quality of the games.

Last gen, Sony banked on brand loyalty and pretty graphics while nintendo relied on portability and control. They have swapped.

The second screen is literally the ONLY area in which the 3ds is not demonstrably inferior.

And while you and aiddon might be willing to keep buying the same games form the mid 90s over and over again, many people aren't.

Its exactly this refusal to innovate and reliance on brand loyalty that got nintendo knocked off their pedestal in the 90s and they got hit so hard it took them over a decade to climb back up top.

On some level even they know it. Notice how the wiiu press conference was a giant "Hey core gamers, sorry for dicking you over for 4 years, we totally want to be friends now that the soccer moms have moved on. Please buy our 200 dollar controllers."

Dave from canada said...

@ Pat

The whole moving a save game migration thing from one platform to the other aside, look at the uncharted demo. The bit where they 'paint' the terrain they want to move over with the touchscreen and the character follows it. It a small thing, but it seamlessly works into the existing gameplay without needing a radical change.

Nintendo's idea of handheld innovation is to put tilt controls on a flying game. ON a platform whose defining feature stops working if not looked at at exactly the right angle.

Smashmatt202 said...

@ imsmart

I was afraid of that. :(

But Boom Boom's return is nice!

21464cb6-9181-11e0-bedb-000bcdcb8a73 said...

"The 3DS' biggest titles are ports of n64 games."

Not from where I'm sitting, mate. I think Mario Kart and Kid Icarus are the platform's biggest games.

"The PSV has neither problem. "

The PSV has a horrible "Fuck You Fans" approach to backwards compatibility and seriously has a software issue at this moment. This wouldn't be a problem if Sony's idea of Backwards compatibility with the PSP wasn't to make you buy your PSP games again in digital form. Smooth.

"Last gen, Sony banked on brand loyalty and pretty graphics while nintendo relied on portability and control. They have swapped."

How is Sony focused on portability with the biggest handheld in existence? Even their designer was bragging about how it couldn't fit in your pocket.

"And while you and aiddon might be willing to keep buying the same games form the mid 90s over and over again, many people aren't."

Would you like to extrapolate on this, or is your theory of Super Mario's sudden unexpected unpopularity your final answer? This is such a stock criticism, so easy to mouth, it's almost like you're just parroting something your heard either from gamefaqs our your viral marketing controller.

"The whole moving a save game migration thing from one platform to the other aside, look at the uncharted demo. The bit where they 'paint' the terrain they want to move over with the touchscreen and the character follows it. It a small thing, but it seamlessly works into the existing gameplay without needing a radical change."

This is so old it's ancient. Nintendo's been doing touch screen controls for years. You're blind.

"Nintendo's idea of handheld innovation is to put tilt controls on a flying game. ON a platform whose defining feature stops working if not looked at at exactly the right angle."

Your idea of criticism is to mouth fanboy troll talking points and think people won't see right through it.

Begone, fool.

Dave from canada said...

@random sequence of numbers and letters guy

"Not from where I'm sitting, mate. I think Mario Kart and Kid Icarus are the platform's biggest games."

If a cart racer and a rail shooter are the platform's biggest games it has an entirely different problem.

"The PSV has a horrible "Fuck You Fans" approach to backwards compatibility and seriously has a software issue at this moment. This wouldn't be a problem if Sony's idea of Backwards compatibility with the PSP wasn't to make you buy your PSP games again in digital form. Smooth."

Much like the gamecube wasn't compatible with n64 games. And considering that nintendo is selling remakes of n64 games at full price, I wouldn't talk.


"How is Sony focused on portability with the biggest handheld in existence? Even their designer was bragging about how it couldn't fit in your pocket."

With a system that has a battery life that cannot be compared to that of a game gear?

"Would you like to extrapolate on this, or is your theory of Super Mario's sudden unexpected unpopularity your final answer? This is such a stock criticism, so easy to mouth, it's almost like you're just parroting something your heard either from gamefaqs our your viral marketing controller."

Yes, clearly I must be a plant if I don't worship nintendo for charging me full price for games they would have been ahsamed to release in 1994.

I was an ardent nintendo fan due to their consistent innovation and leadership in game design. I no longer count my self a fan. I wasn't the first, won't be the last.

" This is so old it's ancient. Nintendo's been doing touch screen controls for years. You're blind."

The touch screen is no is what is special. The application of it into a vastly more complex game IS. Sony took a look at a feature and smartly integrated it into a game. Nintendo came up with a visual gimmick that doens't work under anything less than opimal conditions.

"Your idea of criticism is to mouth fanboy troll talking points and think people won't see right through it."

My opinions are my own, and unlike yours are not derived from the video game equivalent of battered wife syndrome.

It speaks volumes about you and the intense weakness of your position that you react with such virulent hostility at anyone with an opposing view. You haven't actually even addressed most of what I said, just called be names and made baseless accusations to drown out the pangs of uncertainty and doubt in your glorious crusade.

If you want to pay more for less that is your business. But don't get in the way of those who want to give other people options.

Curttehmurt said...

Yeah that's the real question, will the Tanooki suit still enable Mario to turn to stone?

21464cb6-9181-11e0-bedb-000bcdcb8a73 said...

"If a cart racer and a rail shooter are the platform's biggest games it has an entirely different problem."

You mean the most popular racing game of all time? OK, whatever troll.

"Much like the gamecube wasn't compatible with n64 games. And considering that nintendo is selling remakes of n64 games at full price, I wouldn't talk."

LOL reaching back to 2001 to defend Sony's craven lack of Backwards compatibility? Hell Even Sony got that right then with the PS2. This is a weaksauce argument, but you don't care, because you're a flaming troll.

"With a system that has a battery life that cannot be compared to that of a game gear?"

Battery life an "portability" aren't the same thing. The battery life is smallish, but at least you can put it in your pocket, unlike the PSVita.

"Yes, clearly I must be a plant if I don't worship nintendo for charging me full price for games they would have been ahsamed to release in 1994."

Well I guess you're just an idiot fanboy troll then! It figures, because viral marketers might want to be less subtle with their fanboyism. So if you're not one of them, you're just a troll. So what part of Super Mario or Mario Kart is EXACTLY the same as it was in 1994 or whatever arbitrary date you are spewing. Remakes are one thing, but Super Mario 3DS is NEW. Mario Kart 3DS is NEW. Besides, Nintendo's been releasing Mario Kart pretty rapidly since 1994. It's certainly weird that you suddenly find it in your heart to say it's repetitive NOW (Hint: not weird. Predictable.)

And this is another weaksauce argument to make considering most of Sony's PSVita lineup is from long-established franchises. So your tastes go only to games that are only THIS old, and now older.

"I was an ardent nintendo fan due to their consistent innovation and leadership in game design. I no longer count my self a fan. I wasn't the first, won't be the last."

Keep saying this on every forum you come across. Somebody will care one day.

"The touch screen is no is what is special. The application of it into a vastly more complex game IS."

Maybe you'd like to rephrase this in a way that doesn't make you out like a Sony fanboy hypocrite. "When Nintendo did touch screen games, it wasn't innovative, but when Sony does it to one of their IP franchise games, it's the best thing ever!" Please.

21464cb6-9181-11e0-bedb-000bcdcb8a73 said...

"My opinions are my own, and unlike yours are not derived from the video game equivalent of battered wife syndrome."

LOL another Internet Psychology Doctor who thinks throwing around words like "syndrome" adds weight to his arguments.

"It speaks volumes about you and the intense weakness of your position that you react with such virulent hostility at anyone with an opposing view."

LOL Your first post in this thread was mocking MovieBob for showing his appreciation for Mario's Raccoon Tail. You have no leg to stand on, chump. You went negative first, probably because you're a troll.

21464cb6-9181-11e0-bedb-000bcdcb8a73 said...

"You haven't actually even addressed most of what I said, just called be names and made baseless accusations to drown out the pangs of uncertainty and doubt in your glorious crusade."

Again, fella, your entry into this comment section was a thinly-veiled insult to the blogger. You're the one scrambled for new ways to troll people. Get Lost, OR stay here until you feel satisfied with yourself, and then put your clothes back on and go to sleep.

"If you want to pay more for less that is your business. But don't get in the way of those who want to give other people options."

Don't get in the way? Are you seriously saying that simply my opinion of your opinion is somehow censorship and your "glorious crusade" to tell people about PSvita will be stopped cold on my say so? Are you seriously giving my opinion that much weight? Who's uncertain now?

Anyway this sucks. You can always count on a contrarian troll to ruin an otherwise good comment section. Oh well, can't say it wasn't expected.

Dave from canada said...

“You mean the most popular racing game of all time?”
Need for speed?
When you have a format that isn’t going anywhere, it makes no sense to keep it. Much like how Nintendo ditched cartridges for discs. The psv can play digital psp titles, which is the best they can do without hamstringing their new system. Speaking of, how come the 3ds can’t play GBA games? How come wiiu can’t play gamecube games?

“Battery life an "portability" aren't the same thing.”
They kind of are. See a lack of battery life limits the amount of time you can use the system outside the home and away from power sources. It doesn’t matter how small an object is, if it doesn’t have any power, you’re sol. This was an issue with the psp. And is currently one with the 3ds. But i’m sure in a year’s time they’ll be ready to sell you one with a better battery.

“[Random stream of consciousness ramble about NSM3d that i’m abbreviating to save space]”
Yes, I saw the footage. Mario can move in 4 directions sometimes. Crash Bandicoot better watch out. In the mid 90s platfoprmers were essentially sidescrollers, but because they were in 3d, devs tried to let the characters move in 4 directions. It ended up with e same linear levels only with a bit more motion to the other directions. Games like crash were less sidescroller and more tubescrolers. Nintendo never made a single game like that. They made Mario 64 which effectively ushered in 3d gaming as it should have been. Which they’ve now abandoned for a tubescroller.

“So your tastes go only to games that are only THIS old, and now older.”
Yes, much like I’ll eat day old food and not year old food.ime does make a difference. The PSV offer modern games, held up to modern standards. And the established franchises are not an issue. The lack of any kind of advancement in the gameplay on nintendo’s part is. Kid icarus used to be a metroidvania title and now it’s a rail shooter.

“Maybe you'd like to rephrase this in a way that doesn't make you out like a Sony fanboy hypocrite."When Nintendo did touch screen games, it wasn't innovative, but when Sony does it to one of their IP franchise games, it's the best thing ever!" Please.”
I never said anything of the sort. Do try to argue against things I actually said.

My first post was mocking Bob’s reaction. Considering how much he chastises other series for not changing enough, you’d have to ask why bringing back an item from the 80s in Mario is somehow permissible. I was mocking the double standard.

“Are you seriously giving my opinion that much weight? Who's uncertain now?”

Oh I give your opinion about as much weight as that of Harold Camping. Your inability to express yourself like an adult doesn’t mean that the reasoning behind it is any less harmful.

I find it hilarious that you keep trying to paint me as a troll for sony considering I’ve long been one of their harshest critics. But unlike you, I’m not ruled by allegiance to a faceless multinational. I respect a good product. The DS was a good product. The psp, not so much. IN their next generation incarnations, things appear to have switched. The PSV fixes the problems of the PSP...and the 3ds is a DS with bad battery life, dated games and shitty back compat.

It is exactly your attitude of ‘my company can do no wrong’ that allows companies top coast, exploit their customers and hurt the industry as a whole. Call me a troll all you like, but I’d rather see Nintendo bringing it with the genre defining games that take their fellows years to EMULATE, let alone surpass. That won’t happen if their fanbase is composed of spineless yes men.

21464cb6-9181-11e0-bedb-000bcdcb8a73 said...

“They kind of are. See a lack of battery life limits the amount of time you can use the system outside the home and away from power sources. It doesn’t matter how small an object is, if it doesn’t have any power, you’re sol.”

It’s has about 3 to 5 hours. It’s not GREAT but it’s certainly enough to last a day out and about. If you’re stuck at home… keep it plugged in. It’s not really a big deal and it certainly beats out the initial PSP release of 90 minutes to 2 hours. And yeah they probably will come out with a newer one, like everybody else does.

“[Random bullshit dodging the “remakes” and “old games” point he forgot about and talked about Crash Bandicoot]”

I’m sure somebody will care about your opinions on what constitutes “modern game design.” Probably not the 24 million people who bought New Super Mario Bros., though.

“Yes, much like I’ll eat day old food and not year old food.”

Well that’s a broken analogy, as games aren’t food and don’t “rot.” You’re basically saying something is bad because it’s old. Well we get insight into your mindset I guess.

“Kid icarus used to be a metroidvania title and now it’s a rail shooter.”

LOL!! Now I know you’re an ignorant troll. Kid Icarus was nothing of the sort. It had three linear levels, with a really bad zelda-ish part at the end. And the last level was a side-scrolling shoot-em-up. You’ve obviously never played it, and are trying to act like a fan to be artificially “disappointed.” How embarrassing for you.

21464cb6-9181-11e0-bedb-000bcdcb8a73 said...

“I never said anything of the sort. Do try to argue against things I actually said.”
You did say that. You acted like touch Screen Controls are so BAD ASS and INNOVATIVE when they’ve been around for years on the DS. Whether they’re used to good effect in Uncharted or not is another discussion, but this “innovative Sony technology” has been around since 7 years ago.
“My first post was mocking Bob’s reaction. Considering how much he chastises other series for not changing enough, you’d have to ask why bringing back an item from the 80s in Mario is somehow permissible. I was mocking the double standard.”
So Bob’s excited over Super Mario 3DS. So what? You say you aren’t trolling, but now your trolling is justifiable?
“Oh I give your opinion about as much weight as that of Harold Camping. Your inability to express yourself like an adult doesn’t mean that the reasoning behind it is any less harmful.”
So you ARE giving my opinion considerable weight then? You are saying that A) my arguing is shitty, yet B) My “poor” arguments will be more persuasive than yours in the end? Don’t beat yourself up, kiddo. (LOL I’m implying you are a child. This helps my argument, right? No? Did it help yours?)

Dave from canada said...

You need to curb your double standards. You don’t get to claim that back compat is essentially when sony doesn’t have it but doesn’t matter when Nintendo doesn’t do it. If it applies to one, it applies to both. End of story.
The same goes for battery life. You claim a super short battery life on the psp...and yet even using wifi you got 3 hours. That battery life you mock in your very post as as long as you cliam is acceptable for the 3ds.
You keep talking about game sales numbers like that is an indicator of quality, somehow I doubt that would hold true for a game like call of duty...well, maybe once it came to a Nintendo platform and was thus ‘acceptable’
“Well that’s a broken analogy, as games aren’t food and don’t “rot.” You’re basically saying something is bad because it’s old. Well we get insight into your mindset I guess.”
Games don’t rot, but they do get stale. There’s a reason even you aren’t playing nothing but pong every day. Games keep evolving and getting more sophisticated. Nintendo used to be a part of that. Now the industry has moved on as a whole. They have not. They’d rather stay remembering their glory days.
And regardless of whatever nitpicks you want to make about Icarus, my point (which you avoided) is that it is now a RAIL shooter. Nintendo is actually regressing their games.
“You did say that.”
Quote it.
What I did was point out that sony has made much better use of the technology of their system in games than Nintendo is. I NEVER acted like touch screen controls are somehow inherently new or innovative. They were on the DS. But the implementation of them is, where they are seamlessly integrated into existing game controls. Nintendo has you using tilt controls on a flight game...because that never turned out horrible.
My point was that sony took the technology and actually came up with some useful applications for it in games. Which Nintendo is’nt really doing.

“So you ARE giving my opinion considerable weight then”
Try to understand. Your arguments I don’t worry about. Pretty much anyone over the age of majority can see the petty childishness and you resorting to ad hominems with your first post. That doesn’t mean the underlying mindset behind it is something that should be unchallenged.

“I don’t know your personal history with your favorite company, random internet person. But you certainly like to peg others as fanboys when they disagree with you”

Someone is projecting. My favourite gaming company was Nintendo, by the way, all the way up to this generation when they stopped giving a damn about gaming, and decided to just keep selling cheap retro titles.


“How in the blue hell can the 3DS have “shitty” BC?”
I’d tell you to google t but...The 3DS’ different screen size distorts the image...and there’s of course the lack of gba support, which according to you is a grievous sin not to include...at least on another platform.


No, disagreeing with me does not make you a yes man. But the fact that you appear incapable of acknowledging the very flaws in Nintendo that you consider unforgioveable in another4 company is. You have two standards. One for the company you like, one for everything else. Attack whatever label to that you’d like. All I am doing is holding Nintendo to the same standard as everyone else. And considering how quickly you jumped to me being a viral marketer or a trollfor daring to criticize Nintendo, you aren’t one to talk

Pat said...

@Dave from canada

The Uncharted painting thing is a neat trick, but I can't imagine ever actually using it in gameplay. Sony does this thing where they give their hardware the ability to do certain things and then developers almost never actually use it. Sixaxis comes to mind, and so does the interaction between the PS3 and the PSP that they showed off early on.

I won't argue much about the 3DS. It was probably pushed out before it was ready. In some of your other comments you argue things that aren't true, like the backwards compatibility thing. Because the 3DS screen is bigger, there are two ways that it can display DS games. Either by stretching them, or by letterboxing them. The player can choose either. It isn't poor backwards compatibility, it's just a side-effect from having a larger screen.

But as far as innovation goes, you can possibly make the argument that the PSV is more innovative than the 3DS (I don't agree, but I can see an argument for it). But I can't imagine you arguing that it is more innovative than the Wii U, which is what your initial comment implied.

You seem intelligent, and I can understand your dislike for the 3DS and your skepticism regarding the Wii U, but I think you really need to give credit where credit is due. The Wii U could potentially lack a lot of things, but one thing it certainly does not lack is innovation.

Perhaps my definition of innovation differs from yours. I see innovation as trying something new in an effort to move technology or a way of life forward in some way. The PSV doesn't strike me as particularly innovative, mostly because everything it does has been done before. It looks basically like the PSP but with updated hardware to stay competitive and improve the overall quality of the game and to allow cross-compatibility with PS3 games. It's incremental updating, not a completely new animal. I might actually argue that the PSPGo was more innovative by trying to move completely into the realm of gaming without physical media. It was a failed experiment, but it was still trying something completely new. The PSV is just taking all of the best things about the current portable gaming scene and throwing in high-end hardware at a reasonable price. It looks like a great machine, but I don't see that as innovative. The "transfarring" thing that you mention is fairly innovative, but it will only matter if developers other than Kojima actually take advantage of it and if players actually want to use it. Kojima is unique in that he LOVES to take advantage of every bell and whistle he has at his disposal, and it usually works out well for his games, but I have a hard time imagining "transfarring" catching on for developers or many gamers, particularly when we can play PSP games on the TV already with the right cable. Sure it's a little innovative, but I don't really feel like it's doing anything special, which is what I look for in innovation.

What it boils down to for me is that Sony DOES innovate, but it's usually on the sidelines. They take the safe bets and throw in bells and whistles on the side. Nintendo goes all in with it's innovation, regardless of whether or not the innovation is exciting. If their new innovations for the Wii U or the 3DS don't catch on, the entire system is sunk. If "transfarring" goes over like a lead balloon, it won't hurt the core product.

What I'm trying to say is that you may not like Nintendo's offerings, but I don't think you can accuse them of lacking innovation. They may be lacking in other things, like foresight, but they are risk-takers.

imsmart said...

@Daniel R
The Wii brand is based on its unique controller setup, and although it was pretty glorious when game designers knew how to use it, this was not often and only got less often as time passed, so this brand is probably not very strong (Kinect and PS Move's reliance on it will probably bear this out); this is assuming that the Wii U even retains this controller, which it probably does not.

Daniel R said...

@ imsmart

Actually, when I say "Wii Branding" I mean the name Wii not the console's unique capabilities. By naming their new console the "Wii U" Nintendo's basically assured a huge number of sales since unsuspecting parents will see that the magical device in their living room that entertains their kids has a new and improved version. They'll think this solely on the name, disregarding the console's actual capabilities.

Although you make a good point, I wonder if third party usage of the controller's second screen will wane over time much like the Wii's motion controls did.

Pat said...

@Daniel R

Developer's interest in the WiiPad will wane only if the hardware does not have any real value. If the WiiPad truly makes their games more engaging and consumers and reviewers say that they really liked the WiiPad implementation or something like that, then you can bet developers will keep using it.

What happened with the WiiMote was that the developers who used it basically used "waggle controls" in place of buttons and it was not received well. Ultimately, they decided that it wasn't worth the effort and either didn't bother making Wii games or made Wii games that barely used the Wii's unique functionality.

So will the WiiPad actually become a useful tool? Possibly. The touchscreen technology seems to be identical to that of the DS, which developers seem to love, so I doubt there will be much of a learning curve (the DS experience also means that they are used to the whole dual screen thing). On the other hand, it really depends on how much effort Nintendo puts into helping out the developers and how solid the Wii U ends up being as a system. A lot is up in the air at this point, but I think that once they've got some real game demos in the works and a pricing ballpark range, we'll have a better idea of how the Wii U's future looks.

imsmart said...

@Daniel R
This scenario isn't making much sense to me. Parents will buy a new console only because it is advertised as a new version of an old console, and this principle will ensure huge sales all by itself?

Dave from canada said...

Someone politely disagreeing. How novel.
First of all a point of order- Sixaxis was never put into the controller for our benefit. It was to repace rumble which sony had cheaped out on, and to try and steal some of the wii’s thunder. ANYONE who knew anything about how the tech worked pr actual gameplay knew that thing would be useless.
I don’t see how you can argue the 3ds is more innovative than the PSV. The 3ds adds a 3d screen. That is the sum of its contribution to gaming. A feature many people will have to turn off in order to enjoy the system properly. The PSV has 2 touch panels, in addition to all the standard controls. There’s literally no game you could make on the 3ds that the PSV could not play. The same is not true in reverse.
The wiiu to me is a giant DS. It has a bunch of convenient features, but as a gaming platform it is extremely telling that their focus is on graphics. So far is there really an actual GAME application for the features that is actually worth buying a new console for? I also question the utility of a touchscreen on a non handheld device. Most of their demos for the thing are little minigames, rather than games that merit a giant controller like that, or a new system.
To me, something has to be demonstrably positive or useful before I’ll call it innovative. A screen door on a submarine might be a new idea, but not a good one. In terms of gameplay, I already know what the Wiiu can do. I own a DS.
Now the PSV in and of itself is not especially innovative. Touchscreens on things are old hat...just as they are for the Wiiu. It’s the uses. Being able to restart your campaign from the exact moment you left it on the console via cloud saving is pretty neat. Using the touchpanels to simplify more tedious controls in what is essentially a console quality game to me is pretty innovative. I really disagree with you on it being an incremental upgrade. From a control standpoint, it is as capable as the 3ds or wiiu controllers and then some. It has all the same features, plus an extra touch panel. And those new controls bring new options. You don’t have any new options on the 3ds.
Second point of order: “transfarring” is only what Konami calls it. Sony already has games using cloud saves in the works. And I’d bet they’ll be implemented into LBP and MNR.
Giving devs more control options almost always up with positive results. But Nintendo has mostly relied on giving devs more of what they already had. This is ESPECIALLY true for the 3ds, whose only major ‘innovation’ is a graphical gimmick. Aside from that, and the tilt control that almost certainly should never be used WITH 3d, the 3ds is just another DS. The PSV however has a myriad of new ways of interacting with games
“ Nintendo goes all in with it's innovation”
How does this even remotely apply to the 3ds? What does the 3ds bring new to the table?
“If their new innovations for the Wii U or the 3DS don't catch on, the entire system is sunk. “
You say that like it is a point in their favour. Isn’t the fact that the fate of the system rides on a single gimmick more indicatve of a serious flaw in their development strategy? Wouldn’t it be better if any number of elements of their platforms could fail to excite and they would still be a success? Is a table that stands on only one leg better and one that has 4?

“What I'm trying to say is that you may not like Nintendo's offerings, but I don't think you can accuse them of lacking innovation. “
Were this any other generation, I’d agree. Nintendo was one of best gaming companies around, but I feel that they have regressed considerably because they are making enough money that they don’t have to try. And my great fear is that by the time the bubble bursts, they’ll be so atrophied that it will be too late. And then we can join with the sega faithful in bemoaning howour favourite company just hasn’t been any good since they became third party.

Lauri said...

Even though I'm a fan-boy, I wasn't really hard pressed to buy a 3ds; but this paired with the sequel to one of the most under-appreciated games of the last decade (Luigi's mansion) convinced me to star saving for one

Pat said...

@Dave from canada

I would say that the 3DS is very innovative mostly because it implemented glasses-less 3D that worked before many even knew it was possible. This reshaped the 3D arms race not just in the gaming world but in the entire entertainment industry. The first company to achieve glasses-less 3D from dozens of viewing angles for an affordable price will basically take home the glory.

Whether or not this innovation will have a positive affect on gaming as a whole remains to be seen, but that doesn't change the fact that it was something completely new that, if used well, could have a great impact on the future of the entertainment industry. And I would say that that is more innovative than having touchscreens.

I want to give Sony points for being the first to have cloud storage for consoles, but they automatically lose it for tying it into their PlayStation Plus bullshit. Also, the part of "transfarring" that seems innovative to me isn't the cloud storage bit, but the ability to play the same game with the same data on multiple platforms. That is fairly novel. Cloud storage is just an eventuality.

As for the Wii U, I'm actually going to retract most of my positive statements at this point since I have recently learned that the Wii U will only support one WiiPad at a time, effectively crippling whatever potential it initially seemed to have. They've basically lost my favor.

On the other side, the PSV has gained some of my favor since they have said that they may find a way to ease the transition for people (like me) who have already invested in the UMDs. Not sure how yet, but if they can manage that, it shows a degree of awareness Sony previously lacked. Not saying I'll buy one out of the gate, but it definitely doesn't hurt their chances.

Dave from canada said...

@pat


“I would say that the 3DS is very innovative mostly because it implemented glasses-less 3D that worked before many even knew it was possible. “
But why should we care? 3D isn’t going to affect gaming. It’s not the the addition of rumble or a touch screen. It can’t convey any extra information or allow new input. All it is is a way to present the same content...but shinier. Big woop. Isn’t the (to quote bob) “my graphics can out graphics your graphics” arms race exactly what Nintendo and their supporters claimed was a detriment to gaming? How come graphics only matter when Nintendo has them?
An innovation has to be GOOD for it to have any value. The virtual boy was innovative. It was also terrible. Simply doing new things for new things sake is not a virtue.Nintendo jumping onto a gimmicky bandwagon primarily used to make ticket prices and TVs more expensive is also not a good thing.
Nintendo has swapped messages. They used to be all about gameplay, with graphics being a nice bonus. Now they are all about graphical gimmicks and aren’t talking about gameplay. Now they are counting on guys like bob to buy their products (some of which are literally the same products we bought in the 90s) out of nothing but notstalgia and company loyalty...at a premium price, no less.
It’s not good for the industry, it’s not good for the consumer and when said demographic wakes up (and I used to be part of it, so i know it can happen) and goes somewhere else, it will be VERY bad for Nintendo. I’d rather not see the company that drove nearly all of the innovation for the modern gaming industry become another sega.

Damian said...

Ill admit that nintendo did come out with an interesting concept but for two problems. One the Vita is offering the same features for an already existing console. And two the Wii U can only use one of those fancy touchscreen jobs. Which means only one person is getting it. and if you dont beleive me heres the link. http://www.destructoid.com/e3-implications-of-wii-u-s-single-tablet-support-203199.phtml

Now if destructoid isnt good enough for you go google it there are plenty of other websites listing it as news. Interesting how they snuck that little fact through E3.

(Null) said...

I purchase a handheld for these reasons:

1- Get my hands on some good japanese titles. That these days doesn't find their way in the console segment.

2- Play extensive games, those that accompany for a entire generation. Like Pokemon and Monster Hunter.

3- Simple, really "on the go" fun games. Like Pricross, Pokemon, Brain Age, Wario, Yoshi. Pokemon kick's asses because it also fits in this category, since it's turn based, quick combat segmented gameplay.

And of course any game from a IP which I love are welcomed too. Like Zelda, MGS, Mario. BUT since they are well thought for a handheld play style.

I had a PSP, and I realized what Bob meant with it. Playing dumb downscaled not innovative at all(since the PSP controls are almost the same of GBA) God of War, Ratchet etc. gees. While I could play action narrative driven games on my Xbox, in a much more satisfactory way.

3DS is a good product because it has the great NDS interactivity now enabled to go into 3D games (not stereoscopic 3D). Which is much more compatible with the dev. tools and pipeline.

(Null) said...

Complementing.

For me 3DS has a head start since it has Nintendo titles guaranteed. While the 1st party Sony titles are heavily console titles (they have Loco Roco e Patapon, which are great, though). And they don't effort much to adapt them for handheld play style (Killzone Liberation is a great exception, great game).

To prove that I'm fair, impartial and all good: I'm not hyping the MGS3 on the 3DS, even being one of my favorite games ever. It's a good graphics exploration for the system, and good too for the KojimaPro guys set their foot on 3DS hw. But I don't think it will be a very pleasant experience in a handheld (and MGS HD collection is coming to the consoles \o/).

The same goes to the RE Mercenaries, which looks good but has a terrible game design.

(Null) said...

to keep up with the trolls:

Sony games SUX HARD on the handhelds. That's a FACT OF LIFE.

On the other hand(held) Nintendo has great games for this segment. A dozen of new titles too, designed specifically for the NDS, not only Mario and Mario Kart (which fit greatly in the handhelds too).