Sunday, January 23, 2011

ANTITHINKER: Legend of Zelda

UPDATE: This video as of 9/13/11 is at THIS LINK


beyrob said...

first antithinker i enjoyed. i almost sympathized with the guy when he got emotional about OoT. I'm glad to see the over thinker come back. I didn't hate the antithinker as much as some seem to. I just thought he was boring XD.

Slydes said...

I had originally prepared to write a resignation as a Game Overthinker fan as a comment, that is until I saw that the story arc nonsense is (Supposedly) over.

That said, I'll leave you with this: I don't care about any kind of storyline you come up with. I don't care about any kind of beloved "character" that's going to die. I don't care about a showdown, all I care about is insightful and interesting commentary about video games and video game culture.

Did you just ignore all the displeased fans and do this Antithinker stunt anyway, or do you just not read what your fans have to say?

Either way, let's hope you read this: If I see one more episode that tries to have a storyline, I'm out. I'm done. It'll be my last video of yours that I watch. Not that one fan matters that much. For each one like me I'm sure there are three that are more than willing to support you unconditionally.

You're better than this, Bob. You're a grown man, with intellectual things to say, not a fifteen year old kid who just got a camera and a Youtube channel.

Bob said...


As you've probably gleaned from the site-redesign and the end of the episode, the "story" aspect is not going away any time soon.

However, the "straight" commentary (as opposed to the "satire-as-commentary" of the last three episodes) is A.) back on as of right now and B.) will continue to be the "main" focus of the show.

I know I can't "make" you or anyone else enjoy it, but I hope they give it a shot.

Robert said...

What Slydes said!

Clayton said...

I say go right ahead, sometimes the status quo needs to be shaken up. and I guess the "a character will die" thing is just a cliche phrase because the GOT doesn't have characters but Bob and his evil twin (and possibly Strawman). Anyway, hope to see the new eps soon as Daniel can't be the only guy doing game culture commentary on the web.

Bob said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
BJames said...

found this episode to be pretty awesome, people here sound bitter as hell

Aaron said...

The way I see it is that it's Bob's blog and if he wants to try something different after a couple years of Overthinking then by all means. There's nothing wrong with wanting to experiment in your medium. I'm also willing to accept this arc because, if I had been producing episodes for this long, I'd want to try and shake things up or see what else I could put together.

I love the standard Overthinker episodes and the Antithinker arc is entertaining in it's own right. Would I watch a show continually with that kind of character? No, because that's simply everything I hate about gaming rolled up into one entity. I'm sure shows like that exist, but are done in a serious manner which scares me. Just be happy this is satire.

So Bob, keep doing what you're doing. You're an intelligent guy with multiple fascinating/entertaining shows and I can't wait to see the Overthinker return and kick some ass!

Alcibiades said...

Not a fan of the antithinker arc up to this point, but color me cautiously optimistic for the new series.

In any case, the people who are hating need to take a chill pill. Bob doesn't have to do this for anyone but himself, and if you're complaining about the stuff he puts on the web for free, you just come across as an entitled prick. And if the new stuff winds up as bad as this arc, well, there's always his stuff over at the Escapist.

Twinmill said...

I think we should all give the Antithinker one thing. He has his reasons. It's kinda like how we all have ours -at least I hope- for whatever it is that we hate.

I agree that, yes, with any series, it's important to change things and mix them up after a couple years, and I agree that what he's doing is for the better. People will probably be unsatisfied with the changes he makes, but I'm pretty sure that's impossible to avoid. If one thing should be clear now, if it ever wasn't before, is that he overthinks things. His actions, words, positions in controversial issues, etc., aren't baseless. We should all keep that in mind with the coming topics.

Brian said...

Look, nobody seems to mind when the Angry Video Game Nerd goes off on some weird tangent with campy, low budget special effects, Bob is as insightful as hell and if he wants to purposefully jump the shark for a while in his own (Free) show then I'm right there along with him.

I like the Antithinker Arc for the same reason that I 100% completed EDF 2017. Sure, they're both campy, low budget, B-Movies dressed up in other media, but I LIKE campy, low budget, B-Movies. Not for the story or visuals, but because its just fun to take your mind off the hook and enjoy terrible spectacle once in a while.

It's BECAUSE Bob is a grown man with intelligent things to say that he can get away with a stunt like this. Because HE DOESN'T HAVE TO PROVE ANYTHING TO US. We all know he can be intelligent and witty, his back episodes are proof enough of this. I say, let the man have some fun with his own show for a while, and I, for one, will be there till the end.

Adam said...

Ok, you got me. I'm curious to see what you do with this. I just hope the next one comes soon.

Popcorn Dave said...

Well, I couldn't care less about the "Quest", and I'd really rather just move on and forget the whole thing, but at least those upcoming topics look interesting.

Ezenwa said...

And, surprisingly, no one is satisfied. Meh. Let's see where the quest takes us. Hey, bob, ever consider collaborating with someone?

Paul said...

Just wanted to say, Bob, I think your quest idea has great promise. Contrary to what others here say, I think you can still weave a narrative element into your work without jeopardising its quality; the trick from your perspective as a writer is be patient with it.

One of the main problems with the Anti-thinker was that you rushed it in. From introducing Wario's Woods to the takeover of the Anti-thinker was One episode. I think if you'd given the takeover some time to ferment, given the anti-thinker time to develop as a character before making his move, you'd have had a much less critical response.

So be prepared to spend maybe 8 or so episodes building up to the fight, and perhaps even let the fight itself take a few episodes, if that means you can create a decent balance in each episode between what the fans want (your unique brand of overthinking) and narrative momentum.

Dave Cesarano said...

Wow. I'm kind of dismayed at the number of people who are complaining about the Antithinker story-arc.

I think it was an interesting experiment in injecting a narrative into game commentary and analysis, especially with an antagonist that provides a completely opposite perspective.

And people are threatening to "resign" as Overthinker fans? I find this juvenile and disturbing. Guys, Bob's blog is Bob's blog, not yours. He can do with it as he wishes. And it is obvious this story-arc was an experiment--one about which he was extremely excited at the beginning. I honestly think the vast bulk of the people whining about the Antithinker are welcome to their opinions, but are behaving like spoiled, ignorant children. We should encourage experimentation, especially when it is nonprofit. Bob isn't charging $8 every time you visit his blog--it's free (as in no cost) and a free (as in unfettered) exchange of information and ideas.

You people need to take a chill pill and return to reality. Get all bent out of shape over something worthwhile, like the massacres in Uzbekistan. Don't think you have a right to bitch out someone for experimenting with narrative structures on their own goddamned blog.

Anonymous said...

Whatever you do, please don't change into another one of these bullshit vidya game internet shows that try to be funny by having fight scenes, "funny" attempts at sketch comedy and inevitably shitty forced acting. You know, like almost every other popular series out there.

You used to be one of those places you can link to a friend who thinks all games are for kids only to show them there can be more to them. And now... pretty much what Slydes wrote - a blog of a fifteen year old kid who just got a camera and a Youtube channel.

There are traces of true overthinking we know and love in there, but they're drowned in all the, ugh, storyline.

Anonymous said...

@Dave Cesarano:
Come on man. You can't criticize something because it's free? We'll never evolve as human beings with that kind of attitude.

Bob is a big boy and he's demonstrated that he'll keep on doing his thing no matter what anyone says, and that's fine. He won't break down and cry because some anonymous internet-man posted an angry note in the comments.

I find fanboyism in any form repulsive and stupid, and some comments immaturely are close to threats ("if you don't stop I'll unsubscribe you wanker waaaah"), but really, most are valid criticisms.

The Antithinker was an experiment, and, like you said, Bob can post whatever he likes on his blog. The comment section, however, is for his viewers and *they* can post whatever *they* like. I, for one, refuse to cut Bob any slack just because it's an experiment. I hate the whole "if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything" approach.

Anonymous said...

Considering I'm supposed to see this strawman jock as satire, I end up agreeing with the antithinker most the time. I can't see why any gamer of my generation could like Zelda. It was before my time, so I don't have any nostalgia for it, and I can only see it for what it is: a primitive, cutsey-poo, boy rescues girl story with ugly visuals. However iconic or vital it was in the development of the medium doesn't change the fact that I would never want to play something as dated as this.

Ben said...

People who are dramatically threatening to resign as fans need to grow the fuck up. I don't really care at all for the Antithinker schtick, and I find the storyline elements sort of boring, in an overtly anime/video game writing kind of way. That might be intentional, but that doesn't really matter to me, because intentional or not it's still boring.

I might have posted about it once on a prior blog, but for the most part I've just shut up and registered my disapproval in a way that truly reflects how much Bob should give a shit about my opinion in this case: by not watching the videos that I don't want to watch. Simple. I'm not worried about missing storyline elements, and I don't have that "collect 'em all" mindset anymore, so if I have to miss a few episodes here or there because I find the character in them to be repulsive, badly acted, badly written, and part of a boring and generic storyline, well, missing those episodes ain't really going to stick in my craw.

Anonymous said...

Walking stereotypes/strawmen aren't interesting to watch, and refuting them does not make you clever.

I'm willing to go along with the story thing, as long as it takes a complete backseat.

Anonymous said...

...Which you appear to be doing, so cool. :)

dasda said...

I think the whole skit/exercise was a necessary blast of renewed energy. Essentially the dualisms that Bob has set up with the Overthinker and the Anit-thinker don't really exist in the current climate of gaming. Both view points are fallible and I think that is what Bob might be going for. Let's just consider the topics he has mapped out to cover: retro-gaming, level grinding (both categories that could lambaste the Overthinker, classic gamer crowd) as well as farmville (perhaps the truest face of a modern gamer, in the populist sense at least and certainly no hardcore in either sense of Bob's personalities).

If anything the arc has allowed us all to consider the roots of Bob's series. In my opinion the last couple of episodes before this whole Anti-thinker arc, such as 'Episode 30: A tale of two games', 'Episode 31: What's the difference?' tended to ramble and lack structure, take for example 'Episode 37: In which I defend Kinect, sort of...' basically served as a platform for Bob to bash a non-issue of waggle releases on Sony and Xbox. These episodes where extremely lacking and only offered the tiniest kernel of a true topic for discussion and overthinking.

So I for one and very hopeful that by taking some time off and perhaps de-constructing himself a little through this whole arc Bob has realized the importance of just what is worth Overthinking. Otherwise the Overthinker would have been at risk of becoming 'Intermission' but in video form. =/

Anonymous said...

Paul summed up exactly what was wrong with the Antithinker, in my opinion. You didn't give him time to become a real character, so you just had "incorrect-for-the-week guy." You put everything that annoys you into one person, and ended up with an annoying character without any depth.

Although, the steps toward injecting some personality in this episode were in the right direction. :) More of that could easily salvage him.

John Gribbin said...


You know what, if this whole psuedo ARG thing works, this'll have been worth slogging through. If not, eh, my bile fascination made me want to watch the entirety of A Serbian Film, so I'll probably keep watching for the exact moment your ass starts devouring most of your head.

thelastking said...

best anti-thinker so far. he actually gave an insightful view of why OoT might be so popular. kind of made me wonder if he might have a few valid and interesting opinions on the world out side of entertainment. BUT REGARDLESS! THIS IS NOT HIS SHOW AND I AM GLADE TO SEE YOU BACK WHERE YOU BELONG!!!
i think, overall, these anti-thinker episodes might be the weak point in an otherwise great story arc.
it sounds like you have every thing planed out, and i cant wait to see more of this!!!

A Tribe Called Helloween said...

@ Brian

That's because James keeps it short and sweet.

Twinmill said...

Guys, I know threatening to resign is immature, but from what I read, -which isn't everything, you can thank my splitting headache for that- so are the people saying how wrong it is to do so.

I don't know whether the Overthinker Changed or he just didn't when he should have, but a good portion of his fanbase has found issues with him in the past. Including me. Maybe not you.

But imagine idolizing someone, then finally getting it through your thick skull that what he says and what you agree with are two different things. It leads to frustration, a slew of comments about how he's wrong, and eventually, probably threats or, then actual 'resignation as a fan'.

I don't wanna classify, and there are probably many exceptions, but I guess the people that watch the show that aren't retro gamers, but prefer intelligence, fit into the above category mostly.

This is why the Reptile discussion made me mad, so mad that I couldn't reply. I mean, c'mon, he's just a kid. He has issues, but give him a break; don't just give him more.

Believe me. I know. I've been there. The disbelief. The 'suggestions' of games he could play. The outright ridicule, calling him a fanboy and 'giving him a taste of his own medicine', and yes, resignation as a fan. I stopped watching his videos for a while, until the episode Worst Person came out and I caught word of it. So I probably missed one or two episodes.

TheWon said...

Bob you just pulled a Wii! Change the game! Gaining a new audience by the move, at the same time pissing off the old guard. Mainly because the feel you should be only entertaining them. Bob keep doing what your doing because regardless it entertaining. I can only imagine if the Angry Video Game Nerd did a episode where he was Happy. My good internet nerds committing mass suicides. We all can only hope!

Anonymous said...

I was kind of indifferent to the Antithinker arc personally. Do what you want i say. But probably the most entertaining thing for me about this whole saga, was all the comments. Yes a lot of times i read your video's comments to see what people think of your opinions, but definitely this was the most interesting in the arguments etc. I just hope your feedback was as entertaining as it was for me. Keep up the good work and don't let anyone tell you what to do!

Anonymous said...

This is much better, and judging from the end, it only goes uphill from here.

Good job making anti-thinker somewhat relatable, and also the idea that we all enjoyed OoT quite a bit due to the idea of missing our childhood bit. I had never quite looked at it that way, and it was something I had missed from your other videos.

I will once again plead though, please don't go back to the antithinker just bashing the hell out of nerds again. I realize it's satirical, but I for one don't want to sit through things like that, at least not for a full length episode.

So yeah, good luck and "welcome back".

Anonymous said...

Is the "Antithinker" arc perfectly executed? NO, as some others said it's been a rough start and I think you're starting to find the character. It takes a while to develop any new character.

Does the series need an arc? No. Is that the same as saying there shouldn't be one? Again, no. This isn't a storyline to be a storyline, much like Atop the Fourth Wall has been doing (which to be honest is a better done story) but there's a purpose to it.

There's a certain gaming mindset (in the circles I usually comment on I refer to it as the "everything for meeeeeeeeee" crowd) that some types of games and gaming experiences shouldn't exist because the gamer in question doesn't like it. Maybe I'm wrong but that's what I see the Antithinker as representing.

I think the "Quest of the Overthinker" arc may shed some light on the reason for this storyline and may further prove some points Moviebob has been making since the beginning. I haven't hated this arc, and I'm curious to see how he uses it to make his points. As others said, it's a way to inject some fresh energy into the show, which can't be all bad.

Popcorn Dave said...

Sheesh, now the backlash has a backlash. We've got people complaining that other people are complaining too much. And somewhere Bob is watching his ever-increasing page views and laughing, "Dance, puppets! Dance!".

Arturo said...

That was unexpected...
Nice to see the show's coming back on track.

Heh, I bet that if the Antithinker's "bros" saw hom right now, they would call him out for being a wimp.

You know what could be funny? If Bob tried to pull a Scott Pilgrim and he and the Antithinker get along just fine in the end.

Pregnant Orc said...

This will be another post with a bit of complaining.
For me the one thing that have made the arc so far less interesting is the lack of focus. We know the old formula of the Overthinker videos and that is what makes us come back, a deeper look at something game related with some tangents and fun trivia. The way I see the Antithinker isn't very literal as in anti thinking but as a anti/dark/bizzaro Bob. He has a very modern view on the old classics but never got any deeper than to pointing stuff out that just wouldn't fly in a modern game.
Its hard to know if its a joke or an attempt to give some character or backstory when he goes into the park scene or the my dad hit me when I was younger types of things but thats because he only has two character traits; Bro(or Brah!)/Jock and Evil and both are overplayed so he ends up about as deep as the straw man from episode 40. He is very flat and its very easy to ignore everything he say. I don't know if that might be the idea behind him, to get us to not ignore what that part of the gamer culture has to say just because they have a bad view of "us" or just sound dumb. While both they and the Antithinker might not be the best at expressing what they think about the "nerd gamer" its probably because the culture of old school gamers have a very very odd culture full of weird symbols, jokes and terms. Its rare that our culture spills out and gets accepted. In all honesty how logical is it that a green mushroom, a color that very often is linked to poison or radioactive materials in modern games and a range of other things outside of gaming for non gamers as well as being a fungus with no relation to the effect at all outside its own game universe, can mean extra life or free extra try? I'd love it if the Antithinker got around to pointing out that sort of thing instead of just getting to call the mushroom gay.
That is a bit unfair since he actually does get to comment on the weird elements of old school gamer culture but again it gets drowned out by the overacting of the "hey brah!" trait. He also hasn't so far (that I can recall) gone into any depth or used any outside knowledge. For instance in the Metroid other M episode you brought up the words Stoic and Stoicism. Not gaming terms even if used to describe games but an interesting anecdote and even more so for us who don't have English as our first language since the odds to come across the word and not just pick it up in the way it is misused as described in the lead up to the explanation of them is very easy. The show wasn't about teaching people about that sort of thing, they where brought up to back up, prove a point or correct common errors. With the theory that the Antithinker isn't so much anti thinking but more reverse Bob he could be a great character to analyze "the bro gamer". Just like we know instantly what the green 1up mushroom means Antithinker know his culture. If we ever want to get rid of the bad name the title "gamer" has and have others respect us we first need to respect other gamers. Because we should be able to look at Simon Belmont and laugh at the guy in the metal skirt with a wussy whip, we should also be able to call him a bro who doesn't care what your fashion trends say since he can pull that stuff off while kicking the ass of that sparkle fairy Dracula in addition to our old view of the heroic Belmont family.
I might just have the wrong view of the Antithinker character but I do believe that he is more than just a cardboard cutout of the typical jock we all hate. We know Bob is smarter than that and I think its just a lack of showing us to little of the real Antithinker. Its an easy trap to fall into when creating a character. Anyone who has written something and had raw uncensored criticism have experienced it, even if it was just posting your DnD character on a forum.
So come on and show us more of what he really is. As I said I don't think he is as flat as we have given him credit for so far

imsmart said...

I don't think people should complain that Antithinker is a straw man, however aptly, because I'm not sure Bob knows what a straw man is. In the episode 'Heavens To Metroid,' his arguments were mostly refutations of ideas put forth by a character called "Straw Man." Since he probably wasn't knowingly putting forth faulty arguments, nor is he likely to believe that straw man arguments are valid, it seems evident. You could also argue that the character is named "Straw Man" because he is a representation of people who use straw man arguments, and therefore that Bob does get the idea but not the analogy it's named after (since the straw man argument refers to the argument used by the straw man's opponent rather than the actual straw man), but since neither its points nor Bob's counterpoints suggested that possibility, it doesn't hold water. Unless the game itself was the straw man? That would be a major stretch of that term.

Smashmatt202 said...

So a friend told me to watch this episode because "it's good", or at least better than the last two...

Not really.

I'm sorry, but Bob's effects are pretty ghetto, even by Nostalgia Critic standards... And all he ever uses is PhotoShop! In fact, this stuff isn't even a fraction as good as anything seen on or!

A beloved Game Overthinker character will die? Who? Who else on the show has there been besides himself? No one, that's who! And he can't be referring to the Game Antithinker, because he was never a beloved GOT character, and deserves to die!

Again, all I can say is WTF?! Why is he going through this lame-ass story arc? I know he's been saying that he tries to make his show interesting and fun, but geez, just stick to the information and overthinking. Really. I can't exactly explain why I don't like this, I just don't. It just feels like he's selling out, trying to come up with a lame story line with lousy special effects, a lousy character, and it's all just a pointless way to get into more overthinking subjects, which apparently he's going to go over next time.

...I'll probably watch those later on, because until this story arc ends, I'm not interested.

Brandon Wright said...

Bob, I've really enjoyed the Antithinker arc. As much as I love the show's "regular" format, it's nice to see you shaking it up and taking risks. Keep it up.

Ezenwa said...


You wouldn't be high school Ben, would you? If so or not, I wonder if all the people who are complaining about this change will complain if Bob goes back to his old format, and well, says something they might not agree with. Either way, should be interesting.

Although, I am disappointed that people are taking shots at Extra Credits now. I mean, come on. At least they aren't doing this.

MoosePasteInventor said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
MoosePasteInventor said...

Something about 1.24.11? That's today? Right? Right? RIGHT?????

Or did it come out a day early? Am I really that easily drawn into a story line that I'll be anxious about one that probably took 5 minutes to create? Is it possible to get this far in a comment using only questions?

How much longer can I keep up asking questions as the only sentence form here? Is adding a question mark to the end of a sentence considered "stretching it"?

Am I missing quite a lot after seeing "Quest begins" 1.24.11 and watching a video where it says the quest beings on 1.23.11 and hoping that there'll be more on 1.24.11?

Why am I still refreshing the page in a separate tab 8 minutes before 1.25.11 hoping something will appear? Is it really possible I have so little to do that I'll keep doing that for the next 7 minutes?

Did it take me more than 10 minutes to type this response? Am I still only saying things in the form of questions? How?

Why am I still refreshing the page at 11:54pm when I should probably be sleeping? Am I really going to go until midnight before posting this? Will I be able to keep typing for 5 more minutes?

Will there be a new video posted in the next 5 minutes? Is there any chance of the next episode being posted in the next 4 minutes?

Why has it only just occurred to me how unlikely it is that there will be two episodes on consecutive days based on previous experiences from the Game Overthinker?

Why am I still going at 11:58? How much longer can I keep going?

Am I really stretching to make these into questions at this point? Why am I making statements in the from of questions? Is it midnight yet? Why is there no episode on the day there was supposed to be one? Can I slip in a Star Wars quote here?

No! That's impossible! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Smashmatt202 said...

Whoever complains or insults Extra Credits needs to be kicked in the balls. What they're doing is great. It's like what MovieBob was doing before... THIS.

Except they were unbiased and weren't hate-fulled bitter smartasses.

Alphonso said...

Assuming that the "beloved character will die" bit wasn't just a joke, there is a character besides the Anti-Thinker and the Overthinker who could die: Bob, the caffeinated chipmunk--especially since the videos don't need to fit within Youtube's time limit anymore.

Prof. Jenn said...

Does anyone here watch Mr. Plinkett's movie reviews? There's a little storyline there, but it doesn't get in the way of the awesome criticism, which is the center.

Also, I agree with those commenters who remind us that this is free entertainment. All of his vids are gifts. I don't know about you, but I don't spit in the face of someone who gives me a gift, no matter how much I may not like it.

Prof. Jenn said...

Oh, and I can help you with the "epic fight" thing. It's what I do, epic fights.

(sorry about the links but I didn't see an email)...

Josh said...

Aaannnd... I still like this!

I never commented on your videos before because it wasn't necessary. I figured I'd be a little voice for those of us who are enjoying what you're doing and going on with our lives without commenting.

You have plenty of fans who like this. Keep it up!

Juan Skyhouse said...

Like the people over at That Guy With The Glasses and Cinemassacre, Bob using a storyline to help frame his commentaries just makes it more interesting. Now that the Antithinker satires are essentially over, I suspect the story elements will end up at the very beginning and/or very end of each episode. Among other things, this makes them easy to skip if you're uninterested. So cut Bob some slack. The "Quest" idea sounds interesting.

AniMerrill said...

Idk if you'll actually read this or not, but I've been your fan for over a year... maybe year and a half now. I really like your stuff. I honestly respect your opinions, though we may not always see eye to eye, and it's helped shape me a little in the way I look at a possible future career in game development.

But I have to be honest: the whole Anti-Thinker thing sucked. Mileage variation has nothing to do with it, it just didn't work.

And its not because it was a story- frankly I was a little excited because that's what some of my other internet heroes do over at TGWTG very well -but its just because... idk. Either you don't have the personality for that kind of thing or you just had an off day when you thought this up.

I fell in love with your show when I first discovered it because it made me think, it almost made me cry during the Sonic episode (as a 20 year old guy) because I sorta came to the cold realization of what corporate negligence did to a beloved childhood hero of mine. You're deep and you bring up a lot of good, practical, philosophical and often psychological points for why gaming, gamers, what have you are they are.

In the end, I think that's what 90% of your fans want.

Showstopper said...

Let me tell you this.
I've been playing video games one way or another for most of my life.
I knew from the onset (well, let's be frank,not from the onset,since at age four or five, how illuminated can you get?)that games held more meaning than letting on. This recent series of yours has pinched me if you will. It's one of the principal laws of art if you will: you can get a point across by showing its polar opposite. I get that, so "chapeau a bas" as the french would put it. You champion our cause with an intelligence and grace many of our anti-thinker-copy-cats seldom deserve. You say you're the overthinker, I'd just like to thank you for thinking at least as much as it's necessary to understand.

Anonymous said...

I actually find the story arc quite interesting. I also really enjoyed the darkword music from Zelda at the end, nostalgia'd hard ;P

Smashmatt202 said...

Plinkett? Oh yeah, I know about the story line you're talking about...

I usually just skip those parts... Unless Plinkett goes into his demon mode. Those parts are funny!

iNs1d3tRiP said...

If I ever gained the narcissism to make videos, I would actually defend the "antithinker's" position on what games should make you feel. I know you may laugh, but I think that video games are the key to the highest of all post-modern art. Just check out the "No More Heroes" franchise; that's what I'm talking about. I could go on about my theory of Aesthetics, but I should really make a video about it to fully explain myself in order to persuade.

Sssonic said...

For the most part, I've sat out this whole "Anti-Thinker" storyarc. Indeed, I still consider the Anti-Thinker himself a poorly-executed version of a misguided idea; not only is it really rather petulent to stuff every last narrowminded strawman stereotype about "hardcore" gamers you can think of into one character for the sole purpose of further expressing your distaste for them, the Anti-Thinker as a character doesn't really work because...well...the OVERThinker was never really a character. Sure, Bob may treat him as such, but this isn't like the Angry Video Game Nerd, who is, in terms of appearance and personality, a different person than James Rolfe; by all accounts, the "Game Overthinker" is just another name Bob Chipman likes to use for himself, and there is nothing in any of the GOT episodes to prove otherwise, while comparing GOT episodes to episodes of "The Big Picture" and "Escape to the Movies", shows supposedly showing the real Bob Chipman shows how much they really are one and the same guy. Rather hard to be interested in a contrasting character to the Overthinker when the Overthinker wasn't really a character in a greater "story" to begin with up until now.

ALL THAT SAID, however, I will admit. The Quest of the Overthinker intrigues me. NOT, I hasten to mention, because of the inevitable battle with the Anti-Thinker, who remains a rather stupid execution of a flawed idea from what I see in this episode, but because it promises to do more effectively what the very idea of adding a story element to the Overthinker series SHOULD have done from the start: add a fun little spice of context to the established formula of gaming analysis. That sort of thing tickles my fancy for some reason and it always has; the "Mystery Science Theater 3000" episodes from the Sci-Fi Channel years which have actual storyarcs in the spaces between the riffing remain some of my personal favorites, for example.

So congrats, Bob, you've got my interest back for now.

Christopher said...

Wait, there are people that come to this blog that think retrogaming is uninteresting?

That seems really weird to me. It's pretty clear that Bob's videos are heavily informed by the background of a retrogamer playing modern games. If you didn't see the value and enjoyment in that history, wouldn't you disagree with everything he ever said?

I wonder if Bob's ever listened to the retronauts podcast. It ended recently, which is a real loss, it was such a good show.

Display Name said...

Good going, Bob :D I like the fact that you have a story-thing coming along.

Sir Laguna said...

OH thank god is over. At the beginning I thought the antithinker was going to be funny, or a good satire, but it was the same jokes over and over again.

Thanks for trying something new, though.

John said...


I've been a fan since Episode 1! I like the Game Anti-Thinker as well as the Overthinker. Yeah the Overthink you can give insight into the video game world and its amazing. I think Anti-Thinker should be a spin off and be kept as a comic relief. Everyone knows someone like the Anti-thinker!
You can just do them as 2 different shows on 1 site. If can have like 6 different characters, why can't you?

Keep up the good work! I hope I can see you at my local Con.

FinnRA said...

For an antithinker, the antithinker sure does a lot of thinking.

I'm liking this more and more, and I'm finding myself agreeing with TGA more and more.

Ah well

Mr. Un-stoic said...

I don't think the whole "anti-thinker" shenanigan was bad. Just poorly executed to the wrong audience.

You see, Bob. I don't know about everyone else, but I'm a big fan because you're one of the few genuinely quite intelligent critics out there, that actually have something to say. You talk about subjects that are more important than what console is better than the other and all that other boring crap.

I respect that you tried to do something different and get a new angle on the site, but unlike many who rely on the story-arc-as-a-critic-thing format, you're good enough to make interesting and enjoyable videos without resorting to lame jokes or stupid "story arcs."

Manticore said...


I will TOTALLY confess Ocarina of Time is good on the strength it updated a Zelda game into three d more than games as whole. Being one of the few franchises surviving from child hood to now and transition to three dimensions. But as one recent podcast, Digital Cowboys, noted 1998 was a good year for a lot of games. The media as a whole was expanding and gaining prominence if not respect (Pokemon came to the UK and was thriving in the states)

Much like Other M Its more proof of concept and its immediate sequel/spinoff Majora's Mask takes all the sloppy grasping tools of bare functionality but still functionality with fun and storytelling (remember Sonic, Street Fighter and others, the PS generation was like murder to the childhood all for Lara Croft and other things chasing cool without it felt catering to what I wanted) and does it amazingly better with simple tech upgrade but better overall story and direction.

That said I still haven't properly played a Tomb Raider game and their contributions aren't to be denied either. That said just proving you could have simple but nuanced and heartfelt story while being true AND expanding the property from the past and bringing it to now was amazing.

I will admit it gets talked up much. Best game ever. No. No. Really good key game that just from a technical standpoint popularized certain technical implementations. Hell yeah (Ztargeting, as three d arming and fighting was an issue).

Missteps abound in the Nintendo generation but even with all the changes and the diehard conservatism...something came through. I will totally cop to OoT being the best game ever, or even of its generation or even Zelda games on the N64. But it was still very much an event much like the Tomb Raider games and holds up amazingly well like Metal Gear Solid 1 only doing something different.

OoT is an open world game that's like really narrow, was rapidly surprised, didn't touch on any of the emotional or philosophical complexities of FFVII let alone the Shin Megami series, its graphics were...different even when it was new and doesn't age well (as to Link to the Past or the at the time maligned Wind Waker). Don't get me started on the plot and plot holes. The Combat system is minamalized and the puzzle challenges aren't that amazing, even a little dumbed down. Moreover its kinda chaining some Nintendo fans and franchises to it. Parts still feel imcomplete and the overworld is disturbingly barren with most of the action taking place on a narrow strip with exploration taken out.

But still its very much an event game that also happens to provide some great aspects to play and enjoy you want more of. It worked with different control scheme and made us think and enjoy something different. It inspired certain themes and thoughts. The lost childhood isn't even that big a theme but some, like Bob, have taken that AWAY from the game. It has lots of good parts that have been built on and inspire some good games too.

Manticore said...

As for antithinker...well meaner alternate VJ personas can work. I just don't think Antithinkers has. See JewWario versus Yanki J. For one more of slow introduction. Two he's kept and generally is more of nonoffensive and minor thing doing the odd one off gag or so off to the side.

AntiThinker just extremifies, has nothing even fun to say (with Yanki we're at least learning about less understood archetype/look or properties) and as you pointed out isn't even representing proper or extant argument or viewpoint even those opposed to yours. He's even treading ground that... well you've covered already to... uhm not sort of insult us? To say things with no point? To make people with one viewpoint NOT be represented by him?

Just not that funny and doesn't do it for me. The joke goes on too long and well doesn't entertain or offer insight. That's my criticism to your creative endeavor.

I mean an evil twin's usually an attempt to indulge in the id for the author (especially if the Hero's demanded to be too clean) or reflect on what makes a good guy good or what traits he has. Or maybe just the fun of one playing off the other. Well Antithinker and you aren't sharing a screen. Antithinker doesn't represent viewpoint like the real world and you've disclaimed him as such. At most maybe he represents the narcissism that internet or low circulation creators can be be attacked by but well ya know that's easier to attempt to the person if he comes off that indulgent as to the character.

You have kept with it in light of doomsayer and disagreements and there have been some fun bits (robot) and various anecdotes. But these bits are so small I wish the character had started so and then expanded. Moreover well your shows been more squawkbox than variety corner so this represents a much MUCH larger change especially in light of requests to give a voice to the other side or temper or justify your arguments (I want to compliment your FPS episode if only for sharing where you're coming from)

360 Trooper said...


I've been coming here for about a year or two and I'm not big on retrogaming. Retro games give us some perspective on where the medium came from, though I don't think it should determine where it's going. For me, a game like Gears of War is the direct descendant of the old 2-D Contra. Part of the limitation of a medium like this is the technology, and I feel that right now the technology allows us to make the games I wanted to see 20-25 years ago. As such, I don't feel the need to go back. If you like the older games, they're still out there. I just don't think we need NEW old games.

IĆ³rio said...

hurts me deep to hear you say that about ocarina and the Sixty four man... hurts so deep... Please make this stop. And go Hug your link doll who's crying by your bed right now!

Eric said...

Eh... cute, and there was actually some legitimate commentary, but I'm still not finding much humour in these. :P Glad they're going away.

Matt said...

Keep on keepin' on, Bob. I think throwing a story into the mix is good and will make the show more exciting. Especially if you can blend the story telling elements and plot devices into the commentary a little.

Christopher said...

@360 Trooper

If we understand the difference between retro games and modern games is only in the technology, the problem with an argument like that is that it assumes that the quality of a video game experience is entirely technology based. I wouldn't disagree that a technology superior system has the potential to produce superior games, but I don't think it always does. By analogy, I think that would be like arguing that 3-D films are always superior to 2-D films.

Vault Dweller said...

@360 trooper
we don't need new games built in 8-bit. the reason those games are sometimes necessary is some games forget their place as games (deep explorations of the human condition) and try to imitate a non-interactive medium (movies). therefore nobody should ever distinguish good from bad by separating old from new, both good and bad games have been made in every generation.

360 Trooper said...

I should have clarified that I don't think newer games are better because they are newer. It's just my personal experience that much of modern gaming is what I wished gaming was like back when I was 7 years old and as such retro gaming feels like an unnecessary step backwards to me. It doesn't help that some of the louder portions of the retro gaming scene are of the "video games peaked in 1991" variety. It feels less like a design decision and more like nostalgia. And if that's the case, why should I get something like Bionic Commando ReArmed when I can just play Bionic Commando on my NES.

And as for games as a deep exploration of the human condition, I really do come to a greater understanding of myself and the world when I play Parcheesi.

awwnuts07 said...

Sorry Bob, but I'm already bored of this character. I didn't get past the first 45 seconds.

Twinmill said...

Well, I got nothing better to do (that's a lie, I'm just being lazy), so...

Basically, the douchebag, let's call him Mr. Red Smiley Face, is the person that I think Bob is referring to in his videos. Until today, when I saw this flame war, -which I thankfully didn't get involved in- I didn't think those people existed. I thought they were mythical creatures. Like unicorns. Except, unicorns are tooooootallly gheeeey.

You were right, Bob, they do...

But the rest of us? We're nothing like that.

Anyway, I think it's pretty obvious that the retro revivals are nostalgia hits. It's kind of the equivalent of Square Enix remaking FF7, which we all know is coming. Eventually. I won't buy either. Only people that really like the former and really like latter will buy the remakes. The rest of us will go on with whatever we like. In my current case: WoW.

I've made it clear in the past that retro isn't my cup of tea. I've made it even more clear recently.

At the end of the day, however, we're all gamers, and we all have a common enemy: the Mr. Red Smiley Face in the picture I linked. And the Antithinker.

Or the commenter above me. Kidding. Kidding. I swear.

But seriously, dude, watch the video. You might, just might, get a few laughs out of it. Or are you the evil opposite of the Mr. Red Smiley Face?

Tony said...

I dig it bob. Keep doin what you do.

Also the 'in order to defeat your enemy, you must understand him' is a cool trope.


360 Trooper said...

This isn't a comment on this video so much as a comment on Bob's videos of late. I'm reading through the comments and noticed people occasionally bringing up Bob's usage of strawmen, and then it occurred to me that we're using strawmen in discussing video games. This isn't a life or death decision that could potentially bankrupt entire nations, it's video games. We might as well be discussing preferences in breakfast cereals.

I suspect the problem is something that has spread significantly with the internet media critic; the failure to distinguish between subjective opinions and objective facts. I don't like racing games. That's a subjective opinion and anyone who disagrees just has different tastes in gaming. If I somehow thought that this was an objective fact, then anyone who disagrees is wrong and I ought to make videos letting them know they're wrong and that they're destroying society. There is no science or academic study that can say if racing games are good or bad, there is no congressional report stating that racing games are not actually killing jobs. I just don't like them. That's my opinion, and I don't think any less of you if you do like them.

But that's the problem Bob's been having. His videos have this tone where any disagreement with his opinions is in opposition to the laws of nature. And disclaimers don't help. If a video has him saying that he knows not everyone who disagrees is like this strawman, and then proceeds to make jokes about urinal racing, the disclaimer is disingenuous. It's like when someone says "I'm not racist but..." and you know you're about the hear the most racist thing you're going to hear in a month.

So if you like retro-gaming, that's your thing. If you don't like FPSs, that's your thing. It's not my thing, but it's just preferences. I hate anything with the words "online" or "multiplayer" and still have regular conversations with a WoW addict. So when Bob does get back to posting straight commentary, I'd just like to say that we don't have to be enemies. It's video games, no one is dying over this, there is no right or wrong answer. I mean, back in the day Bob wore his Nintendo preferences on his sleeve, but he never called people assholes for disagreeing. So I just ask for a return to civility in the discussion. Maybe some kind of effort to restore sanity.

Arkynomicon said...

Poor Antithinker.

Never played any Zelda game after Link to the Past. Link having to give up his childhood kinda sucks for him I suppose. But then I also come to think that Links childhood going around on a killing-spree probably wasn't that good for him either from a psychological viewpoint.

A recent game that invoked feelings of sadness for me might be Demon's Souls. It has the atmosphere of despair nailed down pretty good. It does also bring up the point if the demons in the game are truly pure evil or just the way they are because of a result of human error.

Like when at the end of one of the 5 levels you confront a corrupted saint that has a become a demon, you slay her mortal champion and lover. She is in despair and rather give up her life and soul then go on with her existence.

Dan W said...

There is a purpose for the anti-thinker, all of us at this site have one thing in common, video games. We have all played the games that Bob talks about, we almost all agree on what Bob has to say about these games, we enjoy his insight fullness.

The Anti-thinker are the outsiders to the video game community, the ones who only play the AAA titles or just wait for the next Call of Duty or Madden. The ones that argue which is better PS3 or Xbox 360. The Anti-thinker is everything that these "bros" are and understand about our community and video game culture. Bob is just trying to show us a different side to understanding video games. You get mad at Bob because you hate this thought process because you see it all the time because you know that there are people out there who are intolerant.

Bob also plays a very activate role on the internet, he has two shows for the escapist and god knows what else he does.Bob, I have enjoyed the anti-thinker and your insight.

Keep up the good work!

Travis said...

Feel kinda sad that the Antithinker didn't last longer. I'm definitely glad to see that the Overthinker is back, as I'm sure Antithinker would have gotten on my nerves eventually (I love Overthinker's analyses as much as, or even more than, the next guy) but I think the Antithinker was a good change of pace.

I didn't care for this episode so much, you started off fine but then you got into the sentimental thing with the park and the whole overanalysis of Zelda's effect on gamers, which is great but it doesn't fit the character at all (in my opinion, but it's your character I guess) so it threw me off a lot.

I don't know why everyone else seems to hate this character so much. Maybe you're all butthurt because he's bashing our favorite old titles, but I don't think so, I thought that you guys as gamers were better than that.

I don't know, I guess when I watch someone like Bob try to act this kind of role, I think it's hilarious. It's really entertaining to watch him do this, and be reminded every single second how much he despises it. Sure it's a new angle on the thing, but did you guys really think it was going to take over? Everyone posting negative comments, are you really this scared that the old awesome Overthinker wouldn't come back after a little while? Bob wouldn't do that.

Yeah, Antithinker isn't very good in it's own right, but it wasn't meant to be. I guess I just really like that he decided to try something different, for a change. Yeah, the story arc thing isn't necessary at all, but that doesn't mean it's bad. I guess I just don't understand all the hate for this.