Interesting video, I admit. Not very informative though, more like a summary of recent events.
Let's just ignore the fact, that neither Move nor Natal have been publically tested, nor have release dates or actual games, rather than tech demos. The main problem is the games. You pointed it out well. Just adding motion controls won't do anything. Or at least very little. You need the proper kind of games. WiiSports is something we haven't see since the days of NS. It's a pure arcade stlye sports game. You could literally put that thing into the arcades (if they still existed) and it would work. Wii's audience likes the nice friendly visuals. But WiiSports does not look chap or cartoonish (aka kiddy). it's just nice. All these things combined with a lot of content make a superb game. When I bought my Wii I just saw WiiSports as a tech Demo that came with it. Taht was in 2006. Today I still play it. It's incredible.
As long as Sony and Microsoft lack such games they can do anything. The lack of addictive arcade-style games is what keeps them from becoming successfull and able to compete with Nintendo.
Oh, one more thing: The SEGA VS Nintendo Console War sucked. It was just two same consoles competing over who has the cooler mascot. Wouldn't it be much more awesome, if there were two completly different consoles? Much live Wii & PC. You can play most of the 360's games as a better version on PC. Plus you need to have a PC anyway. With cost for decent PCs sinking, and hardware requirements of games remaining rather constant, a gaming PC is no longer something you need to spend 1000$ on (today you can even get Macs for less that 1000$). It would be kind of like the order used to be long time ago. Arcade style games for consoles, more complex games for PC.
Anyways, be careful with Metroid: Other M. The gameplay you saw was just a montage. You can do that wigh any game. You can make Metal Gea Solid 4 look like an endless Action Fest, simply with fast paced editing and ignoring the countless cutscenes. Man, even Zelda: Spririt Tracks looked awesome, while the game ended up being a landscape simulator, where you were allowed to touch an enemy from time to time or pull the whistle, while driving slowly on your rain. Yeah, sitting there an watching computer animation float before my eyes, that's exactly what the Zelda series is about, isn't it? I mean, who cares abount finding you way through dungons with countless enemies or exploring an overworld? Keep the dungeons short and straight forward linear with as few enemies as possible (the first dungon hat a total of about FIVE non-respawning enemies), so we cn have more driin around on rails. And when we are about to enter a new area, just send us all the way back, so we don't have so soon to go in yet another dungeon. Oh, and these phantom trins, they were geniuos. You can't fight them (who wants to fight in Zelda anyway?), so you need to sop and wait for them to pass by. This way you can enjoy even more of the fantastic landscape.
Oh, I'm sorry, I went waaaay Off-Topic. The point is, the dvlopers of Other M have made more than obvious, they are making the game "epic", meaning tons of cut scenes and character development. I have no problem with such things, it's just the fear, that when developers are about to get creative and artsy, they end up making a mess, which is neither a good game, nor is it a good story. Poeple who say that they play games for their awesome stories and well-developed characters really need to go see a good movie. Kind of reminds me of your last video ;) This does not mean, a game can't have these things, but then it's a rel writer,who delivers the writing, not a geme designer (just like the game designer does not draw artworks or composes music or dioes the programming). The Witcher (PC RPG, US version is slightly censored, see Wikipedia for moe details) had decnt story and characters. But the game was based on a sreis of novells, so the setting an characters were already given. The author was well involved in the creation of the game.
The point is, let's not hype up Other M too much. It can become the next Super matroid. But it also has a good potential of becoming a bad CGI movie mith a few action sequences.
You also forgot to point out that "hardcore" games have swearing and gratuitous violence, where as (insert random classic Nintendo title here) doesn't.
I'd like to play devils advocate... well mainly because the PS3 games do have more appeal than the Wii games, probably because with a new graphics card in my PC, I'm used to staring at almost photorealistic graphics in Battlefield. That's an exaggeration depending on how close you look, but you get my point.
I do remember a year... I think it was a year ago when the Microsoft and Sony revealed their two... systems. If there's one thing I remembered, and remembered being said time and time again, it's that the PS3's system simply worked. Yeah, that whip demo really was cool, and it showed developers what exactly they could do with this... toy. Microsoft, on the other hand, well from my prospective, aimed at adding more features than anything in their presentation... and really, both of them do look great, and really really, the demo would have gotten me to buy a PS3 if I had the money... tight controls are something I'm a fan of.
I'd hate to say it, but nearing the age of 18, it's occurring to me more and more how much money can be made by closing in on the 'hardcore' market. I guess, in a sense, what Sony and Microsoft have been doing is marketing shiny, polished items that people like me look at and pick up because we see our own reflection in it... insecurity's a big part of it too. Unfortunately, I love Battlefield, and this whole next generation of games has probably grown on me -even if my style is... well it hasn't been done yet but chances are you won't find it on a Wii- and, the graphics are probably a good part of that. I couldn't play Grand Fantasia because... well, like Fallout, it gave me severe headaches.
Now one thing I'd like to see, is more games that try something like Brutal Legend tried. I freaking loved that world, and personally, think using musical instruments as weapons would be an insanely well selling gimmick (hear that Sony?) As for exactly what my style is (and that would explain A-LOT of what I said), well... I'd have to draw something and hope people care enough to see it.
If there's a last thing I'd like to point out, yeah... most people that check the gaming news regularly probably don't sit there, MW2 in hand going "lol I can totally be a ranger," but, honestly, and this is sad, when watching the Sony preview: It appealed to me. It concentrated on the accuracy of the system itself, and... well, the worst thing I noticed, but wasn't surprised by, was my reaction to two doucebags fighting compared to two Miis fighting. Maybe it's from all the games I've played and the fact my Mii hasn't seen me for probably a year, but my mind reacted much better to the douchebags. Simply put: I looked closer at the screen... in awe. I don't know why, really, but I guess it did its job; selling the shiniest and highest polished shiny object it had to offer. I'll think on that, but my standard psychologist guess would have to be: I can relate to it more.
As someone who's at the same age with the same taste in games as Bob, my impression is that Microsoft is targeting the 'casual' crowd with the natal specializing in Wii-sports type fun games while Sony is sticking with the so called 'hardcore' gamers bringing Metroid Prime 3 like controls to their system.
Why? It's quite simple really, money. I don't think there's any official prices released yet but the Natal is going to cost something like $80-100. You only need one for everyone to play, and combined with the lowest priced Xbox 360. So overal the $$$ investment is fairly reasonable for grandpa and the family to pick up and all join in.
Sony's on the other hand, is also going to cost around $100... each. Buy 2 or more of those things and you're looking at the price of the console itself, which is a tough sell for the 'casual' market when they already have a Wii. So that looks to me like it's more intended for the single gamer playing in a room by themselves (or at least online multiplayer).
So it makes me wonder how well that'll go over since they seem to hate the Wii so much. Since they focus too much on the gimmicky side of the wii-mote and fail to see what it really brings to the table, increase depth of control & precisiion. They're going single pad + buttons -> dual analog sticks -> free hand motion control. You can only do so much with two thumbs on an analogue pad and four fingers on shoulder buttons.
Well if you want the person to have any real sort of emotional reaction to the character you need at least SOME kind of base point to relate with.
Although seriously, if someone finds it easier to 'relate' with douchebag, or jerk ass characters I question if they're the type of person I would want to be around. I mean I hate the Wangst side of a lot of JRPGS, but I'd still take Cloud over the countless, "I"m cool because I have a gun and randomly shout swear words" leftovers from the rap era.
That's why I got TF2 the first FPS I've played since the N64 era. It had a cartoon type graphic layout, while still looking very pretty. You had 9 characters with different personalities, and there were just points where I could understand them to a degree. Watch "Meet the Sniper". "Professionals have standards", then watch Meet the Scout, "I hurt people". Completely different. I mean when I watch Let's Play of the Halo Games, I can't even tell the 'characters' apart aside from the fact that the PC is the one holding the gun in front of your face, and the monsters are the bad guys. Your allies? Pretty much just the same person you are, down to the last tee. The player doesn't even get a say in the matter.
Bob I like your videos man. I think you have some interesting stuff to say. But god damn dude, YOU need to get out of the console wars. every time you do a console wars episode all you can do is praise Nintendo and completely rag on anyone else who doesn't think they're god's gift to video games.
also the way you talk about Nintendo comes off a little too high and mighty. just saying
You know, Platinum, not every character is the main character from Wet.
Give the cast of Bad Company a chance and you'd like them too. I find it all too common that people associate everything with, say, Marcus from Gears of War. It's easy and everyone agrees with you. I do find looks to be a large part of how I can relate to a character; if he resembles me, of course I can relate to him better than if he resembles... something unidentified. In the context of this episode, that's exactly what I was referring to-- I didn't read the wrestler's backgrounds and stock the people that made the Miis.
Or maybe I'm wrong and Bad Company 2's an exception. I don't play many new games anyway thanks to my budget.
In light of what Chcobro said in his comment... does anybody think it's odd that being a Nintendo fanboy is the only wrong you an commit in the post-modern video game world?
There are tons of fanboys of all stripes, yet to be a Nintendo fan is somehow "wrong" and it seems to have been since 1998. Nintendo can cycle through all the changes, completely morph focuses from insanely core-oriented to the point of self-obscurity to a sort of ubiquitous mainstream, and yet being a fan of them is still "wrong" and "anti-progress" for whatever the reason fo the generation is (Carts, Kiddy, Casual, Whatever)
You don't see too many Nintendo advocates in the popular games press, mainly because those guys gets lavish review packages and get their "hardcore" egos stroked by the game development arms of Sony and Microsoft. Any you do get seem to be cynical and seem like they would rather be doing something else. The others get fanboy cheerleaders.
Why does Nintendo not deserve its backers? How come it is still wrong to want to support Nintendo or be a fan of them? Questions for our time.
I'm admittedly a bit late to the game, I hope you don't mind if I toss in my own two cents.
Bob, you're a bit more optimistic about MS and Sony's decision to go motion-control than I am. Honestly, I don't think it's going to amount to anything more than a massive failure and a waste of everyone's time and money. I just can't foresee a future where the electronics department is big enough for all three of 'em. And, as we've seen time and time again, having superior technology isn't nearly as important as being first to market.
I wrote a bit on my own sometimes-about-games-sometimes-not blog about what I thought of Sony's and MS's chances of getting into the motion-control game. Hope you don't mind some shameless self-promotion here. If you do, consider this my permission to delete my post: http://themaninthepan.blogspot.com/2010/01/nothing-sells-like-success-especially.html
No, it's not about how being a Nintendo fanboy isn't "cool", it's about how he sees everything Nintendo makes through ruby-shaded sunglasses. He almost neglects the merits of the other two systems, and sees Nintendo as the gaming god.
Is there nothing that Sony and Microsoft doing now that deserve high praise? And is Nintendo's superb sales in direct proportion to their level of quality? And to the last question, I simply state the fact that Transformers 2 made $402 million at the box office...
19 comments:
Interesting video, I admit. Not very informative though, more like a summary of recent events.
Let's just ignore the fact, that neither Move nor Natal have been publically tested, nor have release dates or actual games, rather than tech demos.
The main problem is the games. You pointed it out well. Just adding motion controls won't do anything. Or at least very little. You need the proper kind of games. WiiSports is something we haven't see since the days of NS. It's a pure arcade stlye sports game. You could literally put that thing into the arcades (if they still existed) and it would work. Wii's audience likes the nice friendly visuals. But WiiSports does not look chap or cartoonish (aka kiddy). it's just nice. All these things combined with a lot of content make a superb game.
When I bought my Wii I just saw WiiSports as a tech Demo that came with it. Taht was in 2006. Today I still play it. It's incredible.
As long as Sony and Microsoft lack such games they can do anything. The lack of addictive arcade-style games is what keeps them from becoming successfull and able to compete with Nintendo.
Oh, one more thing: The SEGA VS Nintendo Console War sucked. It was just two same consoles competing over who has the cooler mascot.
Wouldn't it be much more awesome, if there were two completly different consoles? Much live Wii & PC. You can play most of the 360's games as a better version on PC. Plus you need to have a PC anyway. With cost for decent PCs sinking, and hardware requirements of games remaining rather constant, a gaming PC is no longer something you need to spend 1000$ on (today you can even get Macs for less that 1000$).
It would be kind of like the order used to be long time ago. Arcade style games for consoles, more complex games for PC.
I guess, I always have too much to say, sorry
Anyways, be careful with Metroid: Other M. The gameplay you saw was just a montage. You can do that wigh any game. You can make Metal Gea Solid 4 look like an endless Action Fest, simply with fast paced editing and ignoring the countless cutscenes.
Man, even Zelda: Spririt Tracks looked awesome, while the game ended up being a landscape simulator, where you were allowed to touch an enemy from time to time or pull the whistle, while driving slowly on your rain. Yeah, sitting there an watching computer animation float before my eyes, that's exactly what the Zelda series is about, isn't it? I mean, who cares abount finding you way through dungons with countless enemies or exploring an overworld? Keep the dungeons short and straight forward linear with as few enemies as possible (the first dungon hat a total of about FIVE non-respawning enemies), so we cn have more driin around on rails. And when we are about to enter a new area, just send us all the way back, so we don't have so soon to go in yet another dungeon. Oh, and these phantom trins, they were geniuos. You can't fight them (who wants to fight in Zelda anyway?), so you need to sop and wait for them to pass by. This way you can enjoy even more of the fantastic landscape.
Oh, I'm sorry, I went waaaay Off-Topic. The point is, the dvlopers of Other M have made more than obvious, they are making the game "epic", meaning tons of cut scenes and character development. I have no problem with such things, it's just the fear, that when developers are about to get creative and artsy, they end up making a mess, which is neither a good game, nor is it a good story. Poeple who say that they play games for their awesome stories and well-developed characters really need to go see a good movie. Kind of reminds me of your last video ;) This does not mean, a game can't have these things, but then it's a rel writer,who delivers the writing, not a geme designer (just like the game designer does not draw artworks or composes music or dioes the programming). The Witcher (PC RPG, US version is slightly censored, see Wikipedia for moe details) had decnt story and characters. But the game was based on a sreis of novells, so the setting an characters were already given. The author was well involved in the creation of the game.
The point is, let's not hype up Other M too much. It can become the next Super matroid. But it also has a good potential of becoming a bad CGI movie mith a few action sequences.
You also forgot to point out that "hardcore" games have swearing and gratuitous violence, where as (insert random classic Nintendo title here) doesn't.
I'd like to play devils advocate... well mainly because the PS3 games do have more appeal than the Wii games, probably because with a new graphics card in my PC, I'm used to staring at almost photorealistic graphics in Battlefield. That's an exaggeration depending on how close you look, but you get my point.
I do remember a year... I think it was a year ago when the Microsoft and Sony revealed their two... systems. If there's one thing I remembered, and remembered being said time and time again, it's that the PS3's system simply worked. Yeah, that whip demo really was cool, and it showed developers what exactly they could do with this... toy. Microsoft, on the other hand, well from my prospective, aimed at adding more features than anything in their presentation... and really, both of them do look great, and really really, the demo would have gotten me to buy a PS3 if I had the money... tight controls are something I'm a fan of.
I'd hate to say it, but nearing the age of 18, it's occurring to me more and more how much money can be made by closing in on the 'hardcore' market. I guess, in a sense, what Sony and Microsoft have been doing is marketing shiny, polished items that people like me look at and pick up because we see our own reflection in it... insecurity's a big part of it too. Unfortunately, I love Battlefield, and this whole next generation of games has probably grown on me -even if my style is... well it hasn't been done yet but chances are you won't find it on a Wii- and, the graphics are probably a good part of that. I couldn't play Grand Fantasia because... well, like Fallout, it gave me severe headaches.
Now one thing I'd like to see, is more games that try something like Brutal Legend tried. I freaking loved that world, and personally, think using musical instruments as weapons would be an insanely well selling gimmick (hear that Sony?) As for exactly what my style is (and that would explain A-LOT of what I said), well... I'd have to draw something and hope people care enough to see it.
If there's a last thing I'd like to point out, yeah... most people that check the gaming news regularly probably don't sit there, MW2 in hand going "lol I can totally be a ranger," but, honestly, and this is sad, when watching the Sony preview: It appealed to me. It concentrated on the accuracy of the system itself, and... well, the worst thing I noticed, but wasn't surprised by, was my reaction to two doucebags fighting compared to two Miis fighting. Maybe it's from all the games I've played and the fact my Mii hasn't seen me for probably a year, but my mind reacted much better to the douchebags. Simply put: I looked closer at the screen... in awe. I don't know why, really, but I guess it did its job; selling the shiniest and highest polished shiny object it had to offer. I'll think on that, but my standard psychologist guess would have to be: I can relate to it more.
As someone who's at the same age with the same taste in games as Bob, my impression is that Microsoft is targeting the 'casual' crowd with the natal specializing in Wii-sports type fun games while Sony is sticking with the so called 'hardcore' gamers bringing Metroid Prime 3 like controls to their system.
Why? It's quite simple really, money. I don't think there's any official prices released yet but the Natal is going to cost something like $80-100. You only need one for everyone to play, and combined with the lowest priced Xbox 360. So overal the $$$ investment is fairly reasonable for grandpa and the family to pick up and all join in.
Sony's on the other hand, is also going to cost around $100... each. Buy 2 or more of those things and you're looking at the price of the console itself, which is a tough sell for the 'casual' market when they already have a Wii. So that looks to me like it's more intended for the single gamer playing in a room by themselves (or at least online multiplayer).
So it makes me wonder how well that'll go over since they seem to hate the Wii so much. Since they focus too much on the gimmicky side of the wii-mote and fail to see what it really brings to the table, increase depth of control & precisiion. They're going single pad + buttons -> dual analog sticks -> free hand motion control. You can only do so much with two thumbs on an analogue pad and four fingers on shoulder buttons.
There appears ot be somehting wrong with the video. it won't play.
http://screwattack.com/videos/Episode-34-Waggle-War
There's the ScrewAttack link, hope it helps! :D
You keep talking about Nintendo being the "unquestioned leader" but while lots of people haves Wiis, most people I know hardly play them.
I'm a little disappointed that you didn't mention the EyeToy when talking about the Natal.
@A Tribe
Well if you want the person to have any real sort of emotional reaction to the character you need at least SOME kind of base point to relate with.
Although seriously, if someone finds it easier to 'relate' with douchebag, or jerk ass characters I question if they're the type of person I would want to be around. I mean I hate the Wangst side of a lot of JRPGS, but I'd still take Cloud over the countless, "I"m cool because I have a gun and randomly shout swear words" leftovers from the rap era.
That's why I got TF2 the first FPS I've played since the N64 era. It had a cartoon type graphic layout, while still looking very pretty. You had 9 characters with different personalities, and there were just points where I could understand them to a degree. Watch "Meet the Sniper". "Professionals have standards", then watch Meet the Scout, "I hurt people". Completely different. I mean when I watch Let's Play of the Halo Games, I can't even tell the 'characters' apart aside from the fact that the PC is the one holding the gun in front of your face, and the monsters are the bad guys. Your allies? Pretty much just the same person you are, down to the last tee. The player doesn't even get a say in the matter.
It's probability me but the video will not work.
Hey, Bob, time for a little catch up. The second definition of "Hardcore" gamer is officially "Bro Gamer"
Check out the VG Cats archive if you're curious.
"You keep talking about Nintendo being the "unquestioned leader" but while lots of people haves Wiis, most people I know hardly play them."
Non sequitir.
Bob I like your videos man. I think you have some interesting stuff to say. But god damn dude, YOU need to get out of the console wars. every time you do a console wars episode all you can do is praise Nintendo and completely rag on anyone else who doesn't think they're god's gift to video games.
also the way you talk about Nintendo comes off a little too high and mighty. just saying
more videos on games in general.
less console wars videos.
You know, Platinum, not every character is the main character from Wet.
Give the cast of Bad Company a chance and you'd like them too. I find it all too common that people associate everything with, say, Marcus from Gears of War. It's easy and everyone agrees with you. I do find looks to be a large part of how I can relate to a character; if he resembles me, of course I can relate to him better than if he resembles... something unidentified. In the context of this episode, that's exactly what I was referring to-- I didn't read the wrestler's backgrounds and stock the people that made the Miis.
Or maybe I'm wrong and Bad Company 2's an exception. I don't play many new games anyway thanks to my budget.
In light of what Chcobro said in his comment... does anybody think it's odd that being a Nintendo fanboy is the only wrong you an commit in the post-modern video game world?
There are tons of fanboys of all stripes, yet to be a Nintendo fan is somehow "wrong" and it seems to have been since 1998. Nintendo can cycle through all the changes, completely morph focuses from insanely core-oriented to the point of self-obscurity to a sort of ubiquitous mainstream, and yet being a fan of them is still "wrong" and "anti-progress" for whatever the reason fo the generation is (Carts, Kiddy, Casual, Whatever)
You don't see too many Nintendo advocates in the popular games press, mainly because those guys gets lavish review packages and get their "hardcore" egos stroked by the game development arms of Sony and Microsoft. Any you do get seem to be cynical and seem like they would rather be doing something else. The others get fanboy cheerleaders.
Why does Nintendo not deserve its backers? How come it is still wrong to want to support Nintendo or be a fan of them? Questions for our time.
I'm admittedly a bit late to the game, I hope you don't mind if I toss in my own two cents.
Bob, you're a bit more optimistic about MS and Sony's decision to go motion-control than I am. Honestly, I don't think it's going to amount to anything more than a massive failure and a waste of everyone's time and money. I just can't foresee a future where the electronics department is big enough for all three of 'em. And, as we've seen time and time again, having superior technology isn't nearly as important as being first to market.
I wrote a bit on my own sometimes-about-games-sometimes-not blog about what I thought of Sony's and MS's chances of getting into the motion-control game. Hope you don't mind some shameless self-promotion here. If you do, consider this my permission to delete my post: http://themaninthepan.blogspot.com/2010/01/nothing-sells-like-success-especially.html
Also a bit late. Lol.
Anyways, as a reply to Jeff...
No, it's not about how being a Nintendo fanboy isn't "cool", it's about how he sees everything Nintendo makes through ruby-shaded sunglasses. He almost neglects the merits of the other two systems, and sees Nintendo as the gaming god.
Is there nothing that Sony and Microsoft doing now that deserve high praise? And is Nintendo's superb sales in direct proportion to their level of quality? And to the last question, I simply state the fact that Transformers 2 made $402 million at the box office...
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