You didn't mention Donkey Kong at all, which I thought was hilariously apropos.
As for Pokemon vs. Mario, I still maintain that Pokemon is largely a Japanese phenomena that exploded in the nineties. Be honest now, does anyone really care when a new game/season/card whatever is released?
And again, you bash Halo like it killed your dog. Well, I would say that Master Chief has a better chance of remaining than Samus. Compare the sales of Metroid Prime 3 to Halo 3, if you don't believe me.
Overall, I'd say your perspective and mine are wrong because we are both enthusiasts. And in the end, isn't that what geekdom is about? Who cares what the pop culture of games is, when the pop culture of everything usually sucks?
To answer your question's yes you do have younger fans. I am a high school softmore and form my (very) limited knowledge of current relationships as i happen to be one of the nerds described in the PRON episode you are spot on about Archie today. And as for the old characters you showed us i could identify about half. While i think that video games will not suffer losses like the early movie era i do think that over time 90% of the mediums games and icons will be reduced to forgotten images on hard drives some where though a few will always live on. Now who those few will be is anyone's guess.
Wow... I still think you're awesome and all but, as a 17-year-old fan, I really gotta' tell you, you genuinely have lost touch COMPLETELY with kids today. Do you honestly believe that, in the last couple decades, North American society has become polygamous? You do know that marriage is still illegal in most states and all provinces (and probably Mexico, for that matter) between more than two individuals? In fact, if anything, it's LESS acceptable. While back in the 50s, from what I gather, it was quite common to be "courting" several "suitors", if not necessarily boinking 'em in the back of your fancy new-model Ford, nowadays most guys and girls would fly into a jealous, indignant fury over discovering that their significant other, be it boyfriend, girlfriend, fiance or whatever, was sleeping around or dating other individuals. despite the wet-dreams of pretty much every teenaged boy ever, there aren't really many girls that're cool with an open relationship, especially one betetr described as a "harem". And no social friction? Why do you think there are so many angsty livejournal and myspace and twitter entries littering the web?
Oh, and everyone recognizes Archie, even if he is painfully dated and nobody younger than 25 really cares about him. Same goes for Felix the Cat. Harold Lloyd? Yeah, I can give you that one, but most people have at least heard him referenced and anybody with any interest in geeky or old-timey medium could probably, if pressed, identify him as a silent film star of some sort.
Lastly, the advent of internet databases, global uniculture, and the popularization and rising prominence of metafictional themes and nostalgia in todays pop culture means that the games and cinema of today (or at least the ones with any real relevance) are far less likely to be left, lost and forgotten, than anything rpoduced before such things were in place, ESPECIALLY the initial storm of creations accompanying the rise of a new pre-web medium.
Samus might lose a lot of relevance, but just because few people really care enough to collect Felix and Archie merchandise, doesn't mean they're forgotten. hell, Archie is finally getting a bit of modern style-and-subject revamp, in case you haven't noticed, and I distinctly remember an attempt in the 90's (ill-fated as it was) to revive Felix as a half-hour cartoon show.
Oh, and Master Chief is highly recognizable, his series has 4 games (plus remakes and updates), is getting 2 more, and has spawned a number of novels and graphic novels of varying quality AND a widespread line of toys, dioramas and otehr merchandise. Halo got a star of the Walk of Game alongside Mario, Sonic and Link, and the potential for Machinima encourages quite a few brilliant fanworks (especially Red Vs Blue, which is quite a media giant on its own, truth told). Say what you will about the originality of the premise, character, or gamepplay, but the combination is inriguing enough to have attracted Peter Jackson and Guillermo del Toro's attentions, and considering it's already almost happened twice, a major motion picture in the near future would not surprise me- likely a series. Halo might not be quite so flashy and brilliantly, insanely original as some of the content constructed in the video gaming heyday, but it's certainly no flash in the pan.
Legends never die, my aging friend. If they do, they were never legends to begin with.
Surprising that Pac-Man wasn't listed. At one time Pac-Man was synonymous with video games. He had his own cartoon series. Only Dragon's Lair could claim that back in the day, with a few others gathering together for the Saturday Supercade.
Pac-Man is no longer the icon of video games, and is barely the mascot for Namco (if at all). No merchandise outside of some "oldskool" T-Shirt and a "Championship" edition for nostalgists. And yet, Mario (and to a lesser extend Donkey Kong) endured, with only some Asteroid knockoffs an indicator of games gone by. Who really remembers "Pac-Man Fever", and not just the song?
I think the fact that the Pac-Man Family not being in this video is actually a strong indicator that the message is spot-on.
I think you kind of missed the point. Bob wasn't refering to polygamy, he was more talking about how loosely attached kids can be to the subject of romance and are very much ok with the idea of free love, and engaging with any acts, sexual or otherwise with anybody, and not having any strong feeling about it.
I'm only 19, and I really didn't know about this concept, or heard of it's relevancy to the majority of high school kids until... damn, I was a sophomore, but I realized it had just really grew huge a little bit before that.
And we all know that Archie is still around and the series is still fairly huge, but I guarantee you could walk through any school and survey people on who Archie is, they may be able to identify him by name, but the key problem is that's all they'll know.
Same thing goes for Felix, he's always had fantastic merchandise, and cartoons, but it's just that people aren't willing to give him another look, since their initial impression will be rather incredulous. After all he looks, sounds, and has mannerisms strikingly similar to Mickey Mouse.
The same thing goes for Samus, she's been a revolutionary player in gaming, but these days, despite attempts at revival or trying to do something different, like putting heavier emphasis on exploration and upgrade hunting rather then brazenly shooting everything, she gets overshadowed by more current, similar looking heroes who's only claim to fame is that they appeal to the lowest common denominator of trigger happy gamer.
And about the Master Chief, I hate to break it to you but his relevancy now might not last, considering the fact that his game series has had no conceivably substantial evolution since the first game, and that simplified rts spin-off doesn't count.
And let me tell you about a similar character from 20-years-ago who had a similar line-up of games, and with a similar mass of popularity, but after a time, he just kinda faded away. And Bob, I hope your listening to.
Master Higgins, of Hudson's Adventure Island. Bear with me on this, his series had about 5 games (plus remakes and updates), several spin offs and guest appearances, has spawned a number of comics and graphic novels of varying quality AND a widespread line of toys, dioramas and other merchandise. Might not have had a star on the walk of fame, but he's so popular in Japan and in Europe that him, and Hudson's other star character Bomberman are damn near as financially and culturally relevant as Mario or even Sonic.
See what I mean? Now I might be a bit biased because I don't like Halo and am a fan of Duke Nuke'em, Serious Sam, and Half-Life, but doesn't it sound like it could go the same way? Just because it's popular now, since it's highest appeals are it's multiplayer and it's faceless, mysterious (bland), and incredibly powerful protagonist, and desire to be like Starship Troopers. Fans, older or young will start to wise up if this game goes through another 2 or 3 sequels and doesn't do a damn thing to change other than minute little things. It will probably fade out, like Bob said when someone 1-ups it. I've noticed it's fanbase is pretty fickle like that, since they constantly whine about loyalty to the call of duty series or to Halo.
You're argument was well thought out, and intelligent, but you just kind of missed the point.
If nothing else, Halo will be remembered as a popular, overhyped series that everyone claims to hate.
But, lets look at something else.
Metroid was never really popular. It is now, with the benefit of hindsight, but in the 8/16 bit age it was really more of an obscure hardcore game. It was so unpopular, it skipped it generation. Nintendo even thought Prime was a potential bomb. Other M will probably not be very popular, either.
Donkey Kong hasn't really been in a game since the Gameboy era, right?
And Kirby has never been popular.
Remember, pop culture is not what's good, but what sells.
As a 17-year-old, yes, I know who Archie is. I know about the basics of the series, but not many details. Felix the Cat? I'm sure I've seen a cartoon of his before, but I don't remember it at all.
But honestly, I think that gaming has more factors to it than the other forms of media you listed. Most people stop watching cartoons and reading comic books after hitting a certain age, whereas video games, although many people will stop playing them as often when they reach adulthood, will still be able to keep up with the newest gaming news, and their kids will probably end up inheriting the old games.
As for the movies before 1950 being lost, video games seem to be kept track of better in this modern society- With many classic games reaching the Virtual Console (and XBLA to an extent), it's clear the old games aren't totally lost in time.
So where am I going with this? Yes, many popular series today will be lost in time in the future. Popular franchises like Mario, Zelda, Final Fantasy, and Pokemon will be the ones that stay for a long time. Why? The older fanbase still has an influence on newcomers. Look at Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts. It's a good game, but the original fanbase is split in two- Those who are willing to accept the changes, and those who are not. Those who are not make much louder arguments than those who are, and as such, Nuts and Bolts sold horribly. The fact of the matter is, the old players do have an influence on what the new ones play.
To top that off, in today's society, popular franchises will ALWAYS get good reviews. Mario, Halo, Zelda, whatever- They'll get good reviews. Had Sonic only just started failing in recent years, he would still get good reviews. Frankly, the gaming audience differs enough from other entertainment audiences to keep things going for a long time. Yes, there will be the franchises that die. But I believe the really popular ones will stay for quite a while.
Hey Bob, I've been watching your video's for some time now. I am a game designer with similar views as you. I remember the days when Mario first came out and remember the first time I got a Sega Mastersystem and played Sonic for years.
As I grew up all I wanted to do was make games that gave me the same feeling of enjoyment so that the younger generation could enjoy them.
Now that I am in the business I see that the world I once knew has been butchered beyond repair. If any new creative game is made that does not involve characters wearing Armour that makes them look like a Space Marines it gets pushed to the back of the stores and considered Gay.
This makes designing hard because most companies do not want to lose money like this so they have to go with the flow.
Right now I have lost quite allot of faith in Video Games but especially the market that we have to cater for...
Now lets me try to explain something. I like to play MMORPG's, that how I like to pass my time but i enjoy many other games too, I sometimes like to have small tournaments with friends with a 'race to the Finnish' to see who can beat Megaman 2 before anyone one else. I play games for fun. So let me get back to MMO's, this genre of Video Games get butchered with the number of gamers who complain over the slightest detail, they are never happy with what the game presents and will 'Nit pick' as if they all think it's their job. I am all for people's right to have an opinion, but this has got far to serious. It's got so serious that people will shoot down any new game that looks like they have tried to be creative! And it's true that these players have not even tried these video games, so the old saying springs to mind "Don't knock it till you tried it". people forget that some companies work for years to make games that they think people will enjoy.
I hope you get what I am trying to say and I hope you will think about this situation farther.
I am glad that a gamer like yourself likes to remember old creative characters and remember them for what they are.
1 day later and SEGA answers every Sonic fans prayers... http://kotaku.com/5355153/sonic-returns-in-new-2d-hd-game
About time, really. THIS could help Sonic hold on for a little longer, at least. If it's GOOD anyway.
And I'm a 17 year old fan, but I'm also British, so I'm guessing I am let off without knowing Archie? For some reason I know who Felix The Cat is though. I remember reading a comic strip about him once.
As for the characters who will survive? Mario and Pikachu. I think the Zelda series will eventually vanish, unless it becomes Zelda IN SPACE!!! to revitalise things, but something similar will take it's place. Final Fantasy will carry on, ironically. Megaman will start dying soon, he already IS really, Metal Gear will dissapear after the next installments unless it releases an alternate time line, and Phoenix Wright will become THE GOD AMONGST GAMING. Well, not the last one.
I think the film history analogy has an extra dimension that might be worth mentioning.
It seems to me that lots of people consider the first truly "great" films to be the ones that came out in the golden era (Citizen Kane, etc). Sure, people know the names of some of the early silent film stars, but the general culture tends to remember the masterworks only after the 1940's, especially when considering the medium as an art form.
My point: is this the case with video games? If it took almost 50 years for us to get any real heavy hitters in film, might it be possible that Mario will be looked upon in a hundred years as a Charlie Chaplain kind of thing? Good, or even great, but merely a precursor to the real greatness that would follow (i.e., in the 2020's or something)
Dude, another great video. I don't know how you did it, but talking about this subject is really tought.
I'm a brazillian so I don't know Archie and Felix The Cat is pretty much a "I've-seen-it-yeah" kind of thing.
This death-oblivion subject is pretty damn hard to talk about. Geez, I'm a medical student so I have to cope with this things pretty often, and I must say it's not easy at all. It's like what Aquiles thought: "Should I live a happy life or sacrifice it and live forever on the memory of people?" I think sometimes Nintendo thinks: "Should I develop another casual Wii Sports style game and profit like crazy, or should I make another classic or groundbreaking game?"
Man, when I saw this video I started thinking like: "Dude, time flows. The games I played when I was a kid are vanishing into oblivion, maybe some years from now even I will forget about them."
You know what? Give me a break! This is too freaking depressing for me! Time to download Metroid from the Virtual Console, remember the old times and invite some good old gaming-friends over to play some Rock Band or WarioWare.
I don't think that classic videogame icons are just going to be pushed into some black hole like some major movies were back in the time between 1895 and 1950. You have to think about that time period a bit; movies were still new and getting into their own as a medium. I don't mean to sound like it never happened, cause I know very well that it did, but the type of care that would have kept movies in archives or something of that nature was not employed during that time period.
Now, about what you said about what games would endure and what games would not. There is no doubt that relevance has a lot to do with what is remembered and what is not. However, some times a videogame of TV show is good and remembered for the short run it had, thus becoming a legend. Firefly, for instance, only had about two seasons and a movie. Today, the show is praised for being amazing and the movie practically gave Firefly a cult following.
You could say the same for the Metroid franchise. Metroid never had many games in its series. While Metroid II came out two years after Metroid, Super Metroid came out right as the Super Nintendo was going into retirement. It then took eight years for Metroid Fusion to come out, the last entry in the Metroid Series according to the time line. All of the Metroid Prime trilogy and Metroid: Other m, are games that take place in between the numbered metroid games. So technically, Nintendo hasn't made a numbered metroid sequale in almost 7 years. But, all the Metroid games that were released are damn near perfect. Thus, the metroid series is legendary for having almost no of its games be less then amazing.
Finnaly, pokemon is a really more popular in japan. Mario is still, and always will be, the face of nintendo.
When it comes to the film comparison, at least one aspect I didn't get to touch on in the episode-proper is that the "lost era" there had societal impacts as well: It wasn't 'just' film that was lost; the culture of the early (pre-40s) part of the 20th Century in the Western World is practically an entire lost CIVILIZATION unto itself.
The brief decades following the dawn of the electrical age was an EXPLOSION of growth and progress - art, literature, science and 'social issues' were (for those in the classes free to enjoy them, it must be stressed) so fertile it's actually shocking to go back and read about it even now. The Old Gods AND The Old Devils were waning in influence, and "we" were approaching the world as though anything were possible.
Film, like other arts, reflected this uniqueness... there's not even a comparison for it in today's world - imagine if Spike Jones and Steven Spielberg were the same person, that was cinema pre-sound and even pre-WWII. Things like surrealism and explicity/alternative sexuality were becoming essentially mainstream art-topics, to the extent that tons of 20s and 30s movies had to be EDITED FOR CONTENT when re-released in the 50s.
Unfortunately, the rising spectres of Nazism, Communism and (finally) The Bomb were enough to scare our entire society back into it's shell. In some areas (the mainstream acceptance of homosexuality, for example) we're only JUST NOW getting back to where we were then.
I've been watching your videos for several months know and I must congratulate you on the quality of the discussions you promote.
First of all, thanks for all of the Film History references. Please don't stop doing those. I've taken a film history class myself and it is totally worth it--while taking it I kept making comparisons between film and gaming. Which brings me to my point.
The massive disappearances that you talk about with film, I think it has already happened with gaming. Most of the stuff that you (and many other gamers) remember from the pre-1983-crash days have been lost, save for Pac-Man, Space Invaders, Pitfall Larry, and a few others. I mean who wold be interested in playing Pre-NES stuff save for historical reference (a pretty large reason in my mind, but I'm a history buff...). Maybe this comparison isn't the most apt though, I dunno.
Also, keep in mind Sturgeon's Law. Surely that stuff that was lost, no one wanted to save since it was in the crappy 90%. Thus, I am a bit more optimistic about this than you are. I think Samus, Master Cheif and Mario will all survive the test of time; if not in the poplar cultural mind, then just beyond it--in the realm of nerdery they (well two of them anyway) were created in.
And regarding the digital medium's ability to preserve cultural keystones of our culture and reinvigorate them with grassroots movements and projects long past what would otehrwise be their "best before" date?
Seems you missed the main point of my post as well, amigo.
(: You have two younger fans, me and my brother are 15 (sophomore) and 13 (8th grade). You're pretty spot on with Archie, I only know him because of...groceries, just sitting on the magazine rack. My brother always thought Archie was the name of a company, aha. We recognized a little less then half the older characters (ftw felix<3).
@KilHellion You would be very surprised, angst LJ entries and all that drama--teenager girls just look for anything to bitch about. I've seen alot of "friends with benefit" situations, even among my 17 year old friends (I have two best friends that are both 17, we might just be hanging with different crowds). Sex is more openly talked about (4th grade, tops) and that just ties in to a bunch of casualty with: "Oh yeah. I was with this guy for a month and had sex. We weren't going out." Which was more of the point he was trying to get across I think.
It's so sad, I could walk around my brother's middle school and my high school and they'd wonder who Archie, Felix the Cat and Samus are. Some people don't even know who Link is anymore, kids playing videogames? Those are for your 10 and under brothers, nerds and anime kids. Even the anime kids only really know Mario and Link of the nintendo franchise nowadays, they're more into KINGDOMHEARTS and FINALFANASTY and OMGTHEGUYSARESOPRETTY.
I wouldn't expect Pokemon to have the same iconic lasting power as Mario, since it's so spread out, character-wise. Sure, there's Pikachu, but the TV show aside, there's no reason why number 25 of infinity should stand out from the crowd.
Then again, I would have expected that franchise to collapse under its own weight ages ago, which doesn't seem to have happened. So clearly my prediction-making ability isn't that good.
As far as Metroid goes, the games in the series are great, but the franchise has always been smaller, so maybe it will peter out in favor of new stories. Super Metroid will probably have a place in video gaming history, but whether anyone will bother to play such old games generations down the line, who knows?
Wow; I'm 24 and I had NEVER heard of Archie until today; I had forgotten about Felix the Cat. I didn't know what the skateboard guy's name was, but I knew he was from Adventure Island.
Bob, as much as you hate it, Master Chief is sticking around. He probably won't be in ODST... who knows if he is in Reach or not, but he represents one of the most popular franchises in the last two console generations. Don't worry, Mario and Link aren't going anywhere (but neither is Pikachu probably).
I let this one sink in, because I didn't agree with much of what was said.
Really, what gets me is that you are so cynical about who will be remembered in the long run. However you only cite lame creations which don't have any legitimacy in as an art form.
I'm sorry if you disagree with me but maybe you should look more closely as to what you are considering "Art" to be. Look, Art isn't great because we say it's great, Art is great because it is great as it's own being. This isn't just what makes money or is popular at the time, Art captures the human soul.
I thought you were one of the people who actually thought Video Games had potential as an Art form. But this is clearly not the case when you said, "Shakespeare wasn't the only one writing plays you know." I've never heard you say something such a combination of ignorance and arrogance in my entire life. Shakespeare's plays aren't remembered because he simply entertained people, he is remembered because of his impact on Literature is so large that it is impossible NOT to remember him. There are Literary Theories completely based around him as the center of English Literature. He is the cannon! Did you know Shakespeare's literary vocabulary is a little over 30,000 words? That's incredible! The next closest are Milton (And I believe maybe Pope?) who has a literary vocabulary of 8,000 words. And this just scratches the surface as to how great Shakespeare really is.
With am I saying? I'm saying if none of these characters last the test of time, none of them deserve to. Basically, when you made that comment about Shakespeare everything else went completely out the window. Your video lost completely all credibility not because you belittled Shakespeare, but because Shakespeare is the strongest counterexample to your claim. If there is ANYONE who deserves to stand the test of time, if there is ANYONE "Who Will Be Remembered" it is Shakespeare. Look, I completely agree with you about this whole thing, but I am not worried as you are. This is simply because I know Art doesn't diminish like art does. The test of time just weeds out those not worth mentioning.
I really hope Samus is able to really do this. But what if she doesn't? Does she really live on, does any character really live on, if they are remembered in popular culture? What I'm saying is strictly elitist but definitely worth mentioning. Is it really substance if the completely uniformed, unintelligent, uninspired, faceless popular culture accepts these "Video Game Legends" into their Hall of Fame right next to the "Great" Britney Spears or the "Wonderful" Jennifer Aniston.
Come on, get real. Popular culture is not how to become timeless, because popular culture doesn't have the attention span to remember who is who for longer than 5 minutes.
Which Characters will stand the test of time is hard for fans like us to answer. The reason is we have subjective opinions about their relevance. Take Halo's predicessor Marathon. If you were a mac gamer in the 90's, you loved this game. If you were a pc gamer in this time, you would have been lucky to hear about it. Another example would be 'the great console war of the 90's' between Nintendo and Sega. Both companies had fantastic titles which defined a generation of gamers and let to the development of the present medium. They also inspired mutual hatred and resentment in the minds of most kids whose parents wouldn't buy them both systems (go responsible parents!). I grew up in a nintendo household and adored the early Metroid games. when I described them to my genesis friend at school, he told me about a similar game called Echo the Dolphin. I didn't find out how relevant the game was until years later when it came out on virtual console. I guess my point is Relevance is in the eye of the beholder.
@samael: After the credits in Super Metroid, Samus just lets her hair down.
Let me just say this, he may swear a lot, he may just be a guy with a big collection, a mouth, and video editing equipment.
But this is why I believe the Angry Video Game Nerd and the like need to exist.
He may only review games that are bad for comical effect, but if you watch his console reviews, he often talks about the history of them.
You want to know who's going to stay alive Bob? It's going to be what you, the Angry Video Game Nerd, and places like Screwattack keep alive. The power is in your hands.
Most don't know Archie. Some may have heard of him because they sell some of the comics at the check-out cashier in supermarkets. Probably less than 2% have read the comic. You're probably right with your analysis on their modern relastionship. Nobody knows what "going steady" means. We have tried to learn, but we cannot find such ancient archives. Oh, and you're a little optimistic with the amount of people who know Dennis Miller.
With who is going to be remembered, I doubt Pokemon have a chance, it's too often related to the anime for it to stand alone as a game. I think Nintiendo characters have a better chance of surviving because there is no story. Each GAME has a story, but the entire series consists of random non-canon events, allowing it to exsist as a never-ending series. Halo on the other hand is over. Story is done. They have some spin-offs, but that's just squeezing the last toothpaste out of the tube. Master Chief isn't coming back, so he'll just fade from memory.
By the way, I would pay out of my own pockets to see a Cole Train memorial.
@aa-lithium: What I'm getting at is that his idea that teenagers today would find jealousy and the difficulties involved in a love triangle totally alien and unrelatable is ridiculous. Monogamy is not the relic of a past time, by any means. It had nothing to do with sexual openness. Oh, and by the by, it's not as if polyarmorous behaviour is anything new, as I pointed out with my mention of multiple simultaneous "courtships" to wn a lady's affectition in more arguably conservative eras.
Dear gameoverthinker aka Moviebob aka bob, I understand very well of who will be rebreed. There characters that are unfortunately will be forgotten. It is unfortunate that they never got their praise or worst people often mistaken them and are treated as slander insulting their character.
One example is smurfette many people were conflicted of her being the only female smurf, even though she is not. Did anyone research when they make that judgment?
Female were created out of magic smurfete was crated by Gargamel. Which ask the question how did the smurfs came to be? They come from the storks. That answers that question, and raised further ones. Other female smurf include sassette the red head little girl that was evil but put under a spell by papa smurf to be good, clockwork smurfette the robotic female smurf , nanny smurf the old lady . How rude of me let’s talk game wise or game related.
Miles Prower aka Tails from the sonic games another character that love life that often mistaken due to allot misinform or disturb artist.
Tails first love was in the Archie’s comics with lady name Fiona Fox. Tails had love at first site rescuing her,
But it turn out it was trap. Fiona was robot created by DR. Robotic to trap Tails. Oh she is obsessed of over Tails. Robotic making robots evil robots that have psychological
Issues like metal sonic, Ruby, shadow clone (talk later of the sonic thread). He put a timer on them making have to kill to live (gamma)
Tails escaped but Fiona beaten him up and nearly drowned him but she rusted in the water while he drowning him. Tails still loved said he will try to find a way to revive her.
How that for psychological scars that will shut Cloud up. I drew her in my deviant account. Later on in the series it turns out that Fiona was based on the real Fiona.
Loved her as well but she did not have the same feelings she like sonic but actually she liked the sonic alternate that is evil named Anti Sonic
(This is now name scourge). Yes, Sonic's evil twin (insert your soap opera joke here as well as an organ playing)
in (certain issue) when Fiona going evil tails pledged for her not to go to scourge he still believe she be good but he gave slap that was so cold that shocked anyone who kept up with the series or newbie
(Good picture it may be useful for)
Oh let not forget the sonic x series, although I want to. Cosmo the plant lady that had gotten Tails heart, unfortunately she died by sacrifice herself to save sonic characters. She went like old yeller just or from star trek next generation patric stewert. Well that another one lost. They could done more of an impact if they took somethe idea from the good series of sonic (satam), but I guess that asking too much
I apologize I forfgot to show that imaage of her latest performance that made people in shock http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbMECr3Q2QA also show scourge which I talk later about him. let just say words to describe him sre best not be said. oh and for robotnik villany take gander of this. he get rank up in the villain list just for this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2hnpdoBAlA&feature=fvw it in my tto do list to get this oh by the way ihavnt set up my blog yet but i am also little known in the deviantart for drawing underrated characters among other things. I am on a hiatus for now but I glady you give interisting bits knowledge at later time. by the way I think need a better for my blog spot you got any ideas
a small part of me hopes Banjo-Kazooie will rise up since LOG mentioned stuff about going back to basics and the SnS stuff, but I feel feel fear. that stuff about Link and Caultrain will haunt me.
your wrong about your comic book thing. the "noone under 25 reads comics that arent manga" thing. im 14 and i read comics, and i hate manga. i mean there are no words to describe how much i hate manga. and i know ALOT of guys my age that read comics as well. and not the crappy kiddy ones either. i mean everything from watchmen to the walking dead to ex-machina to the green lantern corps. i love all of your stuff, but something has always bothered me about you. you always bring up comic books, every time you talk about something bad happening to video games you bring up the fall of comics. but what the fuck do you know about comics? you review movies and analize video games, you dont know shit about comics. i love ya bob, but you arent qualified to talk about comics and use them as a fail card. youve played video games all your life, youre qualified to talk about them. you went to college and majored in cinema right? your qualified. you have obviously only read 1 or 2 comics in your life time. so shut the fuck up about them. but otherwise, keep up the good work.
actually ZAENGO it would appear that Bob either has read more than a couple comic books but maybe he hasn't read more than every single Wikipedia entry for X-Men, Superman, Batman, The Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, et cetera.
Getting to an actual point, Bob I think you fail to realise that being on the internet you are catering to an international fanbase, so I think you should stop living in America and try to be more ambiguous because I don't know who the fuck Dennis Miller is because I'm Canadian. My version for the past 20 years has been Rick Mercer, you know who he is? You know what This Hour Has 22 Minutes is? Royal Canadian Air Farce? You see what I'm getting at? I know you were trying to make a point but you really are actually alienating potential fans because you keep stalk in only American things, not everyone knows everything about America (but everyone probably knows who Barack Obama is) and I know it probably makes videos easier for you to make because it is easy to fall back on knowledge that you have but if you could take the extra step to try to make things ambiguous or more globally accepted so that we all GET the references you're touting people will probably be more willing to agree with you on an intellectual standpoint, instead of people getting lost in the translation from American culture to their culture.
As a final note, I'm 19, I've been reading Archie comics since I was 6, my grandparents had a tonne of them, my elementary classrooms always had 3 or 4 old comics in the bookshelf, hell I even got Archie comics as teasers for birthday presents (yeah we never were big on giving video games since we were lucky if we got 1 every year for any gift giving day) and I know who Felix is, maybe not because of his original stuff (but I've seen some recently) but I did watch that newer attemp for a 30 minute cartoon and my cousin had the movie they made for him and I watched that. I may not have been born in the 80s so I didn't play all the old NES titles, but I have a shit tonne of relatives who were born in the 70s and had at the very least an SNES (we had a Genesis, so we happily switched between Sonic and Mario with ease, none of this "who is better" bullshit) and I grew up on old floppies of the ORIGINAL Duke Nukum, back in the Apogee days, back when Westwood was making RTS popular with Dune 2 (ok yes I know I wasn't really of video game playing age when those games first came out, but my dad had them all on the computer, so we played them) back when Commander Keen was making games.
That was way too long
tl;dr try to not hold so much stock in American cultural things and try not to patronize your viewers as much, that is all.
Yeah, I know this is a bit late and all. But I just found your stuff, and loving it so far. You make a lot of good points, and make me think of things I haven't thought of before. Being an aspiring game developer [more specifically I want to be game director/lead designer like miyamoto and hideo Kojima] I already have plans to put some [what I think are] nice spins on already made genres, and what you've been pointing out is now helping me make those even better.
But, about your question at the beginning. I am in high school, currently a sophomore, and I have seen the "two girls really wanting one guy" only once. To be honest, a lot of guys would just date one but cheat on her with another. Though, most of the time they only last a week.
The one time I have really seen [or seen something that is close to what you asked] was, in fact, my best friend. He [being the more social of our friendship] had two girls that wanted him, and he didn't know which one he wanted. Eventually he chose one, but ended up breaking up with her a week later because of some things she does that he doesn't like.
Another one of those games that will survive, in my opinion is the Zelda series. Asiding from it's general awesomeness, Ocarina of Time DID change gaming as a whole and the Zelda series has been consistently kickass.
I mean look at all the directions they went in Majora's Mask. Wind Waker was just as good as the rest of them (I personally liked the quicktime events that made a smaller Link use his greater mobility and speed against gigantic enemies) A Twilight Princess almost changed my damn life.
one more thing. Have you not gotten a chance to play Alan Wake?
hey, I remember Archie and I'm just a few years past the generation your talking about, though maybe I'm somewhat of an exception to the rule, I grew up in the nineties but missed most of the ninja turtles episodes for watching Felix the cat and playing yars revenge(definitely my favorite Atari game). I don't know that you should get hung up on who will be remembered, all you can do is try to remember things for yourself, I mean, the games considered classics today might become even more monumental in years to come, though maybe just with people who arent afraid to dig through the past a little, after all one of my alltime favorite movies is from the 20's(the cabinet of doctor caligari). so all is not lost for these games. if anything I think its a sign that gaming is really starting to develop its own histories.
Putting the Kongster on the title card and then not mentioning him at all? If I didn't have a lifelong pro-DK bias, I would still say that's pretty bad..or just ironic. Seriously though, no DK?
You said that many Pokémon fans aren't familiar with the games. Doesn't that make Pikachu less likely to be remembered as a video game icon?
As for the early films not existing any more, I'd say video games have a better chance, because even the most obscure old games live on as ROM files. And PC games are, of course, in digital form from the get-go.
40 comments:
great one! thanks for keeping the quality of your work throughout the episodes. You rock!
great! I metroid doesnt die :(
You didn't mention Donkey Kong at all, which I thought was hilariously apropos.
As for Pokemon vs. Mario, I still maintain that Pokemon is largely a Japanese phenomena that exploded in the nineties. Be honest now, does anyone really care when a new game/season/card whatever is released?
And again, you bash Halo like it killed your dog. Well, I would say that Master Chief has a better chance of remaining than Samus. Compare the sales of Metroid Prime 3 to Halo 3, if you don't believe me.
Overall, I'd say your perspective and mine are wrong because we are both enthusiasts. And in the end, isn't that what geekdom is about? Who cares what the pop culture of games is, when the pop culture of everything usually sucks?
What do you have against Kirby?
To answer your question's yes you do have younger fans. I am a high school softmore and form my (very) limited knowledge of current relationships as i happen to be one of the nerds described in the PRON episode you are spot on about Archie today. And as for the old characters you showed us i could identify about half.
While i think that video games will not suffer losses like the early movie era i do think that over time 90% of the mediums games and icons will be reduced to forgotten images on hard drives some where though a few will always live on. Now who those few will be is anyone's guess.
Wow... I still think you're awesome and all but, as a 17-year-old fan, I really gotta' tell you, you genuinely have lost touch COMPLETELY with kids today. Do you honestly believe that, in the last couple decades, North American society has become polygamous? You do know that marriage is still illegal in most states and all provinces (and probably Mexico, for that matter) between more than two individuals? In fact, if anything, it's LESS acceptable. While back in the 50s, from what I gather, it was quite common to be "courting" several "suitors", if not necessarily boinking 'em in the back of your fancy new-model Ford, nowadays most guys and girls would fly into a jealous, indignant fury over discovering that their significant other, be it boyfriend, girlfriend, fiance or whatever, was sleeping around or dating other individuals. despite the wet-dreams of pretty much every teenaged boy ever, there aren't really many girls that're cool with an open relationship, especially one betetr described as a "harem". And no social friction? Why do you think there are so many angsty livejournal and myspace and twitter entries littering the web?
Oh, and everyone recognizes Archie, even if he is painfully dated and nobody younger than 25 really cares about him. Same goes for Felix the Cat. Harold Lloyd? Yeah, I can give you that one, but most people have at least heard him referenced and anybody with any interest in geeky or old-timey medium could probably, if pressed, identify him as a silent film star of some sort.
Lastly, the advent of internet databases, global uniculture, and the popularization and rising prominence of metafictional themes and nostalgia in todays pop culture means that the games and cinema of today (or at least the ones with any real relevance) are far less likely to be left, lost and forgotten, than anything rpoduced before such things were in place, ESPECIALLY the initial storm of creations accompanying the rise of a new pre-web medium.
Samus might lose a lot of relevance, but just because few people really care enough to collect Felix and Archie merchandise, doesn't mean they're forgotten. hell, Archie is finally getting a bit of modern style-and-subject revamp, in case you haven't noticed, and I distinctly remember an attempt in the 90's (ill-fated as it was) to revive Felix as a half-hour cartoon show.
Oh, and Master Chief is highly recognizable, his series has 4 games (plus remakes and updates), is getting 2 more, and has spawned a number of novels and graphic novels of varying quality AND a widespread line of toys, dioramas and otehr merchandise. Halo got a star of the Walk of Game alongside Mario, Sonic and Link, and the potential for Machinima encourages quite a few brilliant fanworks (especially Red Vs Blue, which is quite a media giant on its own, truth told). Say what you will about the originality of the premise, character, or gamepplay, but the combination is inriguing enough to have attracted Peter Jackson and Guillermo del Toro's attentions, and considering it's already almost happened twice, a major motion picture in the near future would not surprise me- likely a series. Halo might not be quite so flashy and brilliantly, insanely original as some of the content constructed in the video gaming heyday, but it's certainly no flash in the pan.
Legends never die, my aging friend. If they do, they were never legends to begin with.
Surprising that Pac-Man wasn't listed. At one time Pac-Man was synonymous with video games. He had his own cartoon series. Only Dragon's Lair could claim that back in the day, with a few others gathering together for the Saturday Supercade.
Pac-Man is no longer the icon of video games, and is barely the mascot for Namco (if at all). No merchandise outside of some "oldskool" T-Shirt and a "Championship" edition for nostalgists. And yet, Mario (and to a lesser extend Donkey Kong) endured, with only some Asteroid knockoffs an indicator of games gone by. Who really remembers "Pac-Man Fever", and not just the song?
I think the fact that the Pac-Man Family not being in this video is actually a strong indicator that the message is spot-on.
@ KidHellion
I think you kind of missed the point. Bob wasn't refering to polygamy, he was more talking about how loosely attached kids can be to the subject of romance and are very much ok with the idea of free love, and engaging with any acts, sexual or otherwise with anybody, and not having any strong feeling about it.
I'm only 19, and I really didn't know about this concept, or heard of it's relevancy to the majority of high school kids until... damn, I was a sophomore, but I realized it had just really grew huge a little bit before that.
And we all know that Archie is still around and the series is still fairly huge, but I guarantee you could walk through any school and survey people on who Archie is, they may be able to identify him by name, but the key problem is that's all they'll know.
Same thing goes for Felix, he's always had fantastic merchandise, and cartoons, but it's just that people aren't willing to give him another look, since their initial impression will be rather incredulous. After all he looks, sounds, and has mannerisms strikingly similar to Mickey Mouse.
The same thing goes for Samus, she's been a revolutionary player in gaming, but these days, despite attempts at revival or trying to do something different, like putting heavier emphasis on exploration and upgrade hunting rather then brazenly shooting everything, she gets overshadowed by more current, similar looking heroes who's only claim to fame is that they appeal to the lowest common denominator of trigger happy gamer.
And about the Master Chief, I hate to break it to you but his relevancy now might not last, considering the fact that his game series has had no conceivably substantial evolution since the first game, and that simplified rts spin-off doesn't count.
And let me tell you about a similar character from 20-years-ago who had a similar line-up of games, and with a similar mass of popularity, but after a time, he just kinda faded away. And Bob, I hope your listening to.
Master Higgins, of Hudson's Adventure Island. Bear with me on this, his series had about 5 games (plus remakes and updates), several spin offs and guest appearances, has spawned a number of comics and graphic novels of varying quality AND a widespread line of toys, dioramas and other merchandise. Might not have had a star on the walk of fame, but he's so popular in Japan and in Europe that him, and Hudson's other star character Bomberman are damn near as financially and culturally relevant as Mario or even Sonic.
See what I mean? Now I might be a bit biased because I don't like Halo and am a fan of Duke Nuke'em, Serious Sam, and Half-Life, but doesn't it sound like it could go the same way? Just because it's popular now, since it's highest appeals are it's multiplayer and it's faceless, mysterious (bland), and incredibly powerful protagonist, and desire to be like Starship Troopers. Fans, older or young will start to wise up if this game goes through another 2 or 3 sequels and doesn't do a damn thing to change other than minute little things. It will probably fade out, like Bob said when someone 1-ups it. I've noticed it's fanbase is pretty fickle like that, since they constantly whine about loyalty to the call of duty series or to Halo.
You're argument was well thought out, and intelligent, but you just kind of missed the point.
If nothing else, Halo will be remembered as a popular, overhyped series that everyone claims to hate.
But, lets look at something else.
Metroid was never really popular. It is now, with the benefit of hindsight, but in the 8/16 bit age it was really more of an obscure hardcore game. It was so unpopular, it skipped it generation. Nintendo even thought Prime was a potential bomb. Other M will probably not be very popular, either.
Donkey Kong hasn't really been in a game since the Gameboy era, right?
And Kirby has never been popular.
Remember, pop culture is not what's good, but what sells.
As a 17-year-old, yes, I know who Archie is. I know about the basics of the series, but not many details. Felix the Cat? I'm sure I've seen a cartoon of his before, but I don't remember it at all.
But honestly, I think that gaming has more factors to it than the other forms of media you listed. Most people stop watching cartoons and reading comic books after hitting a certain age, whereas video games, although many people will stop playing them as often when they reach adulthood, will still be able to keep up with the newest gaming news, and their kids will probably end up inheriting the old games.
As for the movies before 1950 being lost, video games seem to be kept track of better in this modern society- With many classic games reaching the Virtual Console (and XBLA to an extent), it's clear the old games aren't totally lost in time.
So where am I going with this? Yes, many popular series today will be lost in time in the future. Popular franchises like Mario, Zelda, Final Fantasy, and Pokemon will be the ones that stay for a long time. Why? The older fanbase still has an influence on newcomers. Look at Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts. It's a good game, but the original fanbase is split in two- Those who are willing to accept the changes, and those who are not. Those who are not make much louder arguments than those who are, and as such, Nuts and Bolts sold horribly. The fact of the matter is, the old players do have an influence on what the new ones play.
To top that off, in today's society, popular franchises will ALWAYS get good reviews. Mario, Halo, Zelda, whatever- They'll get good reviews. Had Sonic only just started failing in recent years, he would still get good reviews. Frankly, the gaming audience differs enough from other entertainment audiences to keep things going for a long time. Yes, there will be the franchises that die. But I believe the really popular ones will stay for quite a while.
Hey Bob,
I've been watching your video's for some time now. I am a game designer with similar views as you. I remember the days when Mario first came out and remember the first time I got a Sega Mastersystem and played Sonic for years.
As I grew up all I wanted to do was make games that gave me the same feeling of enjoyment so that the younger generation could enjoy them.
Now that I am in the business I see that the world I once knew has been butchered beyond repair. If any new creative game is made that does not involve characters wearing Armour that makes them look like a Space Marines it gets pushed to the back of the stores and considered Gay.
This makes designing hard because most companies do not want to lose money like this so they have to go with the flow.
Right now I have lost quite allot of faith in Video Games but especially the market that we have to cater for...
Now lets me try to explain something. I like to play MMORPG's, that how I like to pass my time but i enjoy many other games too, I sometimes like to have small tournaments with friends with a 'race to the Finnish' to see who can beat Megaman 2 before anyone one else. I play games for fun. So let me get back to MMO's, this genre of Video Games get butchered with the number of gamers who complain over the slightest detail, they are never happy with what the game presents and will 'Nit pick' as if they all think it's their job. I am all for people's right to have an opinion, but this has got far to serious. It's got so serious that people will shoot down any new game that looks like they have tried to be creative! And it's true that these players have not even tried these video games, so the old saying springs to mind "Don't knock it till you tried it". people forget that some companies work for years to make games that they think people will enjoy.
I hope you get what I am trying to say and I hope you will think about this situation farther.
I am glad that a gamer like yourself likes to remember old creative characters and remember them for what they are.
Keep up the good work Bob.
1 day later and SEGA answers every Sonic fans prayers...
http://kotaku.com/5355153/sonic-returns-in-new-2d-hd-game
About time, really. THIS could help Sonic hold on for a little longer, at least. If it's GOOD anyway.
And I'm a 17 year old fan, but I'm also British, so I'm guessing I am let off without knowing Archie? For some reason I know who Felix The Cat is though. I remember reading a comic strip about him once.
As for the characters who will survive? Mario and Pikachu. I think the Zelda series will eventually vanish, unless it becomes Zelda IN SPACE!!! to revitalise things, but something similar will take it's place. Final Fantasy will carry on, ironically. Megaman will start dying soon, he already IS really, Metal Gear will dissapear after the next installments unless it releases an alternate time line, and Phoenix Wright will become THE GOD AMONGST GAMING. Well, not the last one.
Welcome back. Great episode.
I think the film history analogy has an extra dimension that might be worth mentioning.
It seems to me that lots of people consider the first truly "great" films to be the ones that came out in the golden era (Citizen Kane, etc). Sure, people know the names of some of the early silent film stars, but the general culture tends to remember the masterworks only after the 1940's, especially when considering the medium as an art form.
My point: is this the case with video games? If it took almost 50 years for us to get any real heavy hitters in film, might it be possible that Mario will be looked upon in a hundred years as a Charlie Chaplain kind of thing? Good, or even great, but merely a precursor to the real greatness that would follow (i.e., in the 2020's or something)
Dude, another great video. I don't know how you did it, but talking about this subject is really tought.
I'm a brazillian so I don't know Archie and Felix The Cat is pretty much a "I've-seen-it-yeah" kind of thing.
This death-oblivion subject is pretty damn hard to talk about. Geez, I'm a medical student so I have to cope with this things pretty often, and I must say it's not easy at all. It's like what Aquiles thought: "Should I live a happy life or sacrifice it and live forever on the memory of people?" I think sometimes Nintendo thinks: "Should I develop another casual Wii Sports style game and profit like crazy, or should I make another classic or groundbreaking game?"
Man, when I saw this video I started thinking like: "Dude, time flows. The games I played when I was a kid are vanishing into oblivion, maybe some years from now even I will forget about them."
You know what? Give me a break! This is too freaking depressing for me! Time to download Metroid from the Virtual Console, remember the old times and invite some good old gaming-friends over to play some Rock Band or WarioWare.
I don't think that classic videogame icons are just going to be pushed into some black hole like some major movies were back in the time between 1895 and 1950. You have to think about that time period a bit; movies were still new and getting into their own as a medium. I don't mean to sound like it never happened, cause I know very well that it did, but the type of care that would have kept movies in archives or something of that nature was not employed during that time period.
Now, about what you said about what games would endure and what games would not. There is no doubt that relevance has a lot to do with what is remembered and what is not. However, some times a videogame of TV show is good and remembered for the short run it had, thus becoming a legend. Firefly, for instance, only had about two seasons and a movie. Today, the show is praised for being amazing and the movie practically gave Firefly a cult following.
You could say the same for the Metroid franchise. Metroid never had many games in its series. While Metroid II came out two years after Metroid, Super Metroid came out right as the Super Nintendo was going into retirement. It then took eight years for Metroid Fusion to come out, the last entry in the Metroid Series according to the time line. All of the Metroid Prime trilogy and Metroid: Other m, are games that take place in between the numbered metroid games. So technically, Nintendo hasn't made a numbered metroid sequale in almost 7 years. But, all the Metroid games that were released are damn near perfect. Thus, the metroid series is legendary for having almost no of its games be less then amazing.
Finnaly, pokemon is a really more popular in japan. Mario is still, and always will be, the face of nintendo.
When it comes to the film comparison, at least one aspect I didn't get to touch on in the episode-proper is that the "lost era" there had societal impacts as well: It wasn't 'just' film that was lost; the culture of the early (pre-40s) part of the 20th Century in the Western World is practically an entire lost CIVILIZATION unto itself.
The brief decades following the dawn of the electrical age was an EXPLOSION of growth and progress - art, literature, science and 'social issues' were (for those in the classes free to enjoy them, it must be stressed) so fertile it's actually shocking to go back and read about it even now. The Old Gods AND The Old Devils were waning in influence, and "we" were approaching the world as though anything were possible.
Film, like other arts, reflected this uniqueness... there's not even a comparison for it in today's world - imagine if Spike Jones and Steven Spielberg were the same person, that was cinema pre-sound and even pre-WWII. Things like surrealism and explicity/alternative sexuality were becoming essentially mainstream art-topics, to the extent that tons of 20s and 30s movies had to be EDITED FOR CONTENT when re-released in the 50s.
Unfortunately, the rising spectres of Nazism, Communism and (finally) The Bomb were enough to scare our entire society back into it's shell. In some areas (the mainstream acceptance of homosexuality, for example) we're only JUST NOW getting back to where we were then.
Hey Bob,
I've been watching your videos for several months know and I must congratulate you on the quality of the discussions you promote.
First of all, thanks for all of the Film History references. Please don't stop doing those. I've taken a film history class myself and it is totally worth it--while taking it I kept making comparisons between film and gaming. Which brings me to my point.
The massive disappearances that you talk about with film, I think it has already happened with gaming. Most of the stuff that you (and many other gamers) remember from the pre-1983-crash days have been lost, save for Pac-Man, Space Invaders, Pitfall Larry, and a few others. I mean who wold be interested in playing Pre-NES stuff save for historical reference (a pretty large reason in my mind, but I'm a history buff...). Maybe this comparison isn't the most apt though, I dunno.
Also, keep in mind Sturgeon's Law. Surely that stuff that was lost, no one wanted to save since it was in the crappy 90%. Thus, I am a bit more optimistic about this than you are. I think Samus, Master Cheif and Mario will all survive the test of time; if not in the poplar cultural mind, then just beyond it--in the realm of nerdery they (well two of them anyway) were created in.
@ squall lee
And regarding the digital medium's ability to preserve cultural keystones of our culture and reinvigorate them with grassroots movements and projects long past what would otehrwise be their "best before" date?
Seems you missed the main point of my post as well, amigo.
(: You have two younger fans, me and my brother are 15 (sophomore) and 13 (8th grade). You're pretty spot on with Archie, I only know him because of...groceries, just sitting on the magazine rack. My brother always thought Archie was the name of a company, aha. We recognized a little less then half the older characters (ftw felix<3).
@KilHellion You would be very surprised, angst LJ entries and all that drama--teenager girls just look for anything to bitch about. I've seen alot of "friends with benefit" situations, even among my 17 year old friends (I have two best friends that are both 17, we might just be hanging with different crowds). Sex is more openly talked about (4th grade, tops) and that just ties in to a bunch of casualty with: "Oh yeah. I was with this guy for a month and had sex. We weren't going out." Which was more of the point he was trying to get across I think.
It's so sad, I could walk around my brother's middle school and my high school and they'd wonder who Archie, Felix the Cat and Samus are. Some people don't even know who Link is anymore, kids playing videogames? Those are for your 10 and under brothers, nerds and anime kids. Even the anime kids only really know Mario and Link of the nintendo franchise nowadays, they're more into KINGDOMHEARTS and FINALFANASTY and OMGTHEGUYSARESOPRETTY.
Yeah.
This has made me think alot about my generation.
I wouldn't expect Pokemon to have the same iconic lasting power as Mario, since it's so spread out, character-wise. Sure, there's Pikachu, but the TV show aside, there's no reason why number 25 of infinity should stand out from the crowd.
Then again, I would have expected that franchise to collapse under its own weight ages ago, which doesn't seem to have happened. So clearly my prediction-making ability isn't that good.
As far as Metroid goes, the games in the series are great, but the franchise has always been smaller, so maybe it will peter out in favor of new stories. Super Metroid will probably have a place in video gaming history, but whether anyone will bother to play such old games generations down the line, who knows?
Wow; I'm 24 and I had NEVER heard of Archie until today; I had forgotten about Felix the Cat. I didn't know what the skateboard guy's name was, but I knew he was from Adventure Island.
Bob, as much as you hate it, Master Chief is sticking around. He probably won't be in ODST... who knows if he is in Reach or not, but he represents one of the most popular franchises in the last two console generations. Don't worry, Mario and Link aren't going anywhere (but neither is Pikachu probably).
You think no one would remember Commander Keen?
I let this one sink in, because I didn't agree with much of what was said.
Really, what gets me is that you are so cynical about who will be remembered in the long run. However you only cite lame creations which don't have any legitimacy in as an art form.
I'm sorry if you disagree with me but maybe you should look more closely as to what you are considering "Art" to be. Look, Art isn't great because we say it's great, Art is great because it is great as it's own being. This isn't just what makes money or is popular at the time, Art captures the human soul.
I thought you were one of the people who actually thought Video Games had potential as an Art form. But this is clearly not the case when you said, "Shakespeare wasn't the only one writing plays you know." I've never heard you say something such a combination of ignorance and arrogance in my entire life. Shakespeare's plays aren't remembered because he simply entertained people, he is remembered because of his impact on Literature is so large that it is impossible NOT to remember him. There are Literary Theories completely based around him as the center of English Literature. He is the cannon! Did you know Shakespeare's literary vocabulary is a little over 30,000 words? That's incredible! The next closest are Milton (And I believe maybe Pope?) who has a literary vocabulary of 8,000 words. And this just scratches the surface as to how great Shakespeare really is.
With am I saying? I'm saying if none of these characters last the test of time, none of them deserve to. Basically, when you made that comment about Shakespeare everything else went completely out the window. Your video lost completely all credibility not because you belittled Shakespeare, but because Shakespeare is the strongest counterexample to your claim. If there is ANYONE who deserves to stand the test of time, if there is ANYONE "Who Will Be Remembered" it is Shakespeare. Look, I completely agree with you about this whole thing, but I am not worried as you are. This is simply because I know Art doesn't diminish like art does. The test of time just weeds out those not worth mentioning.
I really hope Samus is able to really do this. But what if she doesn't? Does she really live on, does any character really live on, if they are remembered in popular culture? What I'm saying is strictly elitist but definitely worth mentioning. Is it really substance if the completely uniformed, unintelligent, uninspired, faceless popular culture accepts these "Video Game Legends" into their Hall of Fame right next to the "Great" Britney Spears or the "Wonderful" Jennifer Aniston.
Come on, get real. Popular culture is not how to become timeless, because popular culture doesn't have the attention span to remember who is who for longer than 5 minutes.
Which Characters will stand the test of time is hard for fans like us to answer. The reason is we have subjective opinions about their relevance. Take Halo's predicessor Marathon. If you were a mac gamer in the 90's, you loved this game. If you were a pc gamer in this time, you would have been lucky to hear about it. Another example would be 'the great console war of the 90's' between Nintendo and Sega. Both companies had fantastic titles which defined a generation of gamers and let to the development of the present medium. They also inspired mutual hatred and resentment in the minds of most kids whose parents wouldn't buy them both systems (go responsible parents!). I grew up in a nintendo household and adored the early Metroid games. when I described them to my genesis friend at school, he told me about a similar game called Echo the Dolphin. I didn't find out how relevant the game was until years later when it came out on virtual console. I guess my point is Relevance is in the eye of the beholder.
@samael: After the credits in Super Metroid, Samus just lets her hair down.
Let me just say this, he may swear a lot, he may just be a guy with a big collection, a mouth, and video editing equipment.
But this is why I believe the Angry Video Game Nerd and the like need to exist.
He may only review games that are bad for comical effect, but if you watch his console reviews, he often talks about the history of them.
You want to know who's going to stay alive Bob? It's going to be what you, the Angry Video Game Nerd, and places like Screwattack keep alive. The power is in your hands.
Answers to your questions for younger viewers
Most don't know Archie. Some may have heard of him because they sell some of the comics at the check-out cashier in supermarkets. Probably less than 2% have read the comic. You're probably right with your analysis on their modern relastionship. Nobody knows what "going steady" means. We have tried to learn, but we cannot find such ancient archives. Oh, and you're a little optimistic with the amount of people who know Dennis Miller.
With who is going to be remembered, I doubt Pokemon have a chance, it's too often related to the anime for it to stand alone as a game. I think Nintiendo characters have a better chance of surviving because there is no story. Each GAME has a story, but the entire series consists of random non-canon events, allowing it to exsist as a never-ending series. Halo on the other hand is over. Story is done. They have some spin-offs, but that's just squeezing the last toothpaste out of the tube. Master Chief isn't coming back, so he'll just fade from memory.
By the way, I would pay out of my own pockets to see a Cole Train memorial.
@aa-lithium: What I'm getting at is that his idea that teenagers today would find jealousy and the difficulties involved in a love triangle totally alien and unrelatable is ridiculous. Monogamy is not the relic of a past time, by any means. It had nothing to do with sexual openness. Oh, and by the by, it's not as if polyarmorous behaviour is anything new, as I pointed out with my mention of multiple simultaneous "courtships" to wn a lady's affectition in more arguably conservative eras.
Didn't Archive get married to Veronica recently?
Dear gameoverthinker aka Moviebob aka bob,
I understand very well of who will be rebreed. There characters that are unfortunately will be forgotten.
It is unfortunate that they never got their praise or worst people often mistaken them and are treated as slander insulting their character.
One example is smurfette many people were conflicted of her being the only female smurf, even though she is not. Did anyone research when they make that judgment?
Female were created out of magic smurfete was crated by Gargamel.
Which ask the question how did the smurfs came to be? They come from the storks.
That answers that question, and raised further ones. Other female smurf include sassette the red head little girl that was evil but put under a spell by papa smurf to be good, clockwork smurfette the robotic female smurf , nanny smurf the old lady . How rude of me let’s talk game wise or game related.
Miles Prower aka Tails from the sonic games another character that love life that often mistaken due to allot misinform or disturb artist.
Tails first love was in the Archie’s comics with lady name Fiona Fox. Tails had love at first site rescuing her,
But it turn out it was trap. Fiona was robot created by DR. Robotic to trap Tails. Oh she is obsessed of over Tails. Robotic making robots evil robots that have psychological
Issues like metal sonic, Ruby, shadow clone (talk later of the sonic thread). He put a timer on them making have to kill to live (gamma)
Tails escaped but Fiona beaten him up and nearly drowned him but she rusted in the water while he drowning him. Tails still loved said he will try to find a way to revive her.
How that for psychological scars that will shut Cloud up. I drew her in my deviant account. Later on in the series it turns out that Fiona was based on the real Fiona.
Loved her as well but she did not have the same feelings she like sonic but actually she liked the sonic alternate that is evil named Anti Sonic
(This is now name scourge). Yes, Sonic's evil twin (insert your soap opera joke here as well as an organ playing)
in (certain issue) when Fiona going evil tails pledged for her not to go to scourge he still believe she be good but he gave slap that was so cold that shocked anyone who kept up with the series or newbie
(Good picture it may be useful for)
Oh let not forget the sonic x series, although I want to. Cosmo the plant lady that had gotten Tails heart, unfortunately she died by sacrifice herself to save sonic characters. She went like old yeller just or from star trek next generation patric stewert. Well that another one lost. They could done more of an impact if they took somethe idea from the good series of sonic (satam), but I guess that asking too much
I apologize I forfgot to show that imaage of her latest performance that made people in shock
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbMECr3Q2QA
also show scourge which I talk later about him. let just say words to describe him sre best not be said.
oh and for robotnik villany take gander of this. he get rank up in the villain list just for this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2hnpdoBAlA&feature=fvw
it in my tto do list to get this oh by the way ihavnt set up my blog yet but i am also little known in the deviantart for drawing underrated characters among other things. I am on a hiatus for now but I glady you give interisting bits knowledge at later time.
by the way I think need a better for my blog spot you got any ideas
good vid as usual.
a small part of me hopes Banjo-Kazooie will rise up since LOG mentioned stuff about going back to basics and the SnS stuff, but I feel feel fear. that stuff about Link and Caultrain will haunt me.
your wrong about your comic book thing. the "noone under 25 reads comics that arent manga" thing. im 14 and i read comics, and i hate manga. i mean there are no words to describe how much i hate manga. and i know ALOT of guys my age that read comics as well. and not the crappy kiddy ones either. i mean everything from watchmen to the walking dead to ex-machina to the green lantern corps. i love all of your stuff, but something has always bothered me about you. you always bring up comic books, every time you talk about something bad happening to video games you bring up the fall of comics. but what the fuck do you know about comics? you review movies and analize video games, you dont know shit about comics. i love ya bob, but you arent qualified to talk about comics and use them as a fail card. youve played video games all your life, youre qualified to talk about them. you went to college and majored in cinema right? your qualified. you have obviously only read 1 or 2 comics in your life time. so shut the fuck up about them. but otherwise, keep up the good work.
If people forget Banjo Kazooie, I'm gonna have to start beating people with a stick.
actually ZAENGO it would appear that Bob either has read more than a couple comic books but maybe he hasn't read more than every single Wikipedia entry for X-Men, Superman, Batman, The Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, et cetera.
Getting to an actual point, Bob I think you fail to realise that being on the internet you are catering to an international fanbase, so I think you should stop living in America and try to be more ambiguous because I don't know who the fuck Dennis Miller is because I'm Canadian. My version for the past 20 years has been Rick Mercer, you know who he is? You know what This Hour Has 22 Minutes is? Royal Canadian Air Farce? You see what I'm getting at? I know you were trying to make a point but you really are actually alienating potential fans because you keep stalk in only American things, not everyone knows everything about America (but everyone probably knows who Barack Obama is) and I know it probably makes videos easier for you to make because it is easy to fall back on knowledge that you have but if you could take the extra step to try to make things ambiguous or more globally accepted so that we all GET the references you're touting people will probably be more willing to agree with you on an intellectual standpoint, instead of people getting lost in the translation from American culture to their culture.
As a final note, I'm 19, I've been reading Archie comics since I was 6, my grandparents had a tonne of them, my elementary classrooms always had 3 or 4 old comics in the bookshelf, hell I even got Archie comics as teasers for birthday presents (yeah we never were big on giving video games since we were lucky if we got 1 every year for any gift giving day) and I know who Felix is, maybe not because of his original stuff (but I've seen some recently) but I did watch that newer attemp for a 30 minute cartoon and my cousin had the movie they made for him and I watched that. I may not have been born in the 80s so I didn't play all the old NES titles, but I have a shit tonne of relatives who were born in the 70s and had at the very least an SNES (we had a Genesis, so we happily switched between Sonic and Mario with ease, none of this "who is better" bullshit) and I grew up on old floppies of the ORIGINAL Duke Nukum, back in the Apogee days, back when Westwood was making RTS popular with Dune 2 (ok yes I know I wasn't really of video game playing age when those games first came out, but my dad had them all on the computer, so we played them) back when Commander Keen was making games.
That was way too long
tl;dr try to not hold so much stock in American cultural things and try not to patronize your viewers as much, that is all.
Yeah, I know this is a bit late and all. But I just found your stuff, and loving it so far. You make a lot of good points, and make me think of things I haven't thought of before. Being an aspiring game developer [more specifically I want to be game director/lead designer like miyamoto and hideo Kojima] I already have plans to put some [what I think are] nice spins on already made genres, and what you've been pointing out is now helping me make those even better.
But, about your question at the beginning. I am in high school, currently a sophomore, and I have seen the "two girls really wanting one guy" only once. To be honest, a lot of guys would just date one but cheat on her with another. Though, most of the time they only last a week.
The one time I have really seen [or seen something that is close to what you asked] was, in fact, my best friend. He [being the more social of our friendship] had two girls that wanted him, and he didn't know which one he wanted. Eventually he chose one, but ended up breaking up with her a week later because of some things she does that he doesn't like.
Another one of those games that will survive, in my opinion is the Zelda series. Asiding from it's general awesomeness, Ocarina of Time DID change gaming as a whole and the Zelda series has been consistently kickass.
I mean look at all the directions they went in Majora's Mask. Wind Waker was just as good as the rest of them (I personally liked the quicktime events that made a smaller Link use his greater mobility and speed against gigantic enemies) A Twilight Princess almost changed my damn life.
one more thing. Have you not gotten a chance to play Alan Wake?
just putting that out there
hey, I remember Archie and I'm just a few years past the generation your talking about, though maybe I'm somewhat of an exception to the rule, I grew up in the nineties but missed most of the ninja turtles episodes for watching Felix the cat and playing yars revenge(definitely my favorite Atari game). I don't know that you should get hung up on who will be remembered, all you can do is try to remember things for yourself, I mean, the games considered classics today might become even more monumental in years to come, though maybe just with people who arent afraid to dig through the past a little, after all one of my alltime favorite movies is from the 20's(the cabinet of doctor caligari). so all is not lost for these games. if anything I think its a sign that gaming is really starting to develop its own histories.
Putting the Kongster on the title card and then not mentioning him at all? If I didn't have a lifelong pro-DK bias, I would still say that's pretty bad..or just ironic.
Seriously though, no DK?
I found so much useful data in this post!
You said that many Pokémon fans aren't familiar with the games. Doesn't that make Pikachu less likely to be remembered as a video game icon?
As for the early films not existing any more, I'd say video games have a better chance, because even the most obscure old games live on as ROM files. And PC games are, of course, in digital form from the get-go.
Post a Comment