Friday, March 23, 2012

Frozen Synapse Mocks "Re-Take Mass-Effect"

Below, footage of the ending to "Frozen Synapse," which has (temporarily) been altered into a more "fan-friendly" one in an act of satire on the notion of Bioware potentially re-writing "Mass Effect 3's" finale due to unprecedented fan complaint. Funny.


ScrewAttackSamus said...

they deserved it

ScrewAttackSamus said...

also, Child's Play is now refusing donations from the RME bs. Surprised that they didn't do it earlier.

Anonymous said...

Hilarious. Hopefully they can cook up another parody mocking those idiots whining about that stupid kung-fu reptile cartoon.

Matthew said...

I'll have to remember this post the next time moviebob does an entire episode on one of his shows complaining about how bad and terrible it is. :)

BobBriggs said...

"We can't expect the outcome of our stories to conform to our own preconceptions"

True that.

On another note, hey Bob, when are you going to post on your other blog complaining about how they changed the turtles or rebooting Spiderman again? Or how the Dark Knight will be disappointing even though none of us has seen it yet.

Xaos said...
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Xaos said...
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Xaos said...

Before I begin, I feel I should make a few things known.

I have not played any of the Mass Effect games, although I have recently heard a lot about it. I watched "SF debris" review of Mass Effect 3 as a work of science fiction (as opposed to a video game) because well, I just tend to watch a lot of review of things I haven't (and don't plan to see)

Over a while it was apparent that Mass Effect might've been one of the things I might want to check out, so when the controversy started over the ending, I was kind of scratching my head as to how bad it could be. I mean, western RPG-style games have had lots of lamesauce endings before (I remember refunding Two worlds AND my newly purchased Xbox 360 after seeing both endings, which were both a reloaded save file and a boss fight away. I actually was pretty much done with the sandbox at that point.)

Either Commander Shepard saved the Galaxy or everybody gets killed by Reapers? I mean, either one would have resolved the trilogy, so how disappointing could've really have been?

Then everyone kept talking about it and I broke down and decided to watch Angry Joe's review of the ending, and I got it. I don't even know which aliens are which and I got what's wrong with the ending.

Its not that its disappointing or that that one guy didn't speak in real Klignon or something. Its that the ending is actually insulting to the player's intelligence, and absolutely could not be the same writers who wrote all of the story that came before, because even under a deadline they wouldn't have had Shepard blow up the galaxy and fail to talk about that.

This Frozen Synapse "parody" is a better ending to Mass Effect 3.

What? At least the player isn't asking questions about "Did I just blow up the galaxy?" or "Isn't stranding a giant coalition of aliens in a solar system with 8 unihabitable planets and 1 severely depleted one going to be 100 less heroic than letting them fight the Reapers to the last ship?" because those are the questions that tend to convince me to not get into Mass Effect at all. I'm effectively boycotting the entire series, retroactively.

I mean it, go ahead and drop ship this one into the Mass Effect 3 ending. Just before Shepard meets the Star-thing switch to hand drawn back grounds.

"There was trouble in the galaxy."

"But you fixed it."


"Now here's a morality lesson about expectations."

"and also a Dinosaur and a pony!"

Sure, they are outright trolling the players now, but at least they are kind of sort taking their players seriously enough to explain themselves.

Or hell, even just a picture of a guy throwing his hands up and saying "We give up! We can't do this!"

Sure, it'd be pathetic, but at least it'd be honest.

TLDR version: If Bioware put this ending in Mass Effect 3, RME is more likely to give themselves high fives for actually changing the ending to something better than being insulted. Really.

Jannie said...

In all honesty, no sarcasm or anything, would SOMEONE on the Bioware side care to answer this question:

If this ending was the original artistic vision of the creators then why does it contain several plot holes and inaccuracies that contradict the previously established canon?

I mean if this was their plan all along then why did they previously explain that blowing up a mass relay would destroy a star system--them blow one up, only to have the star system not destroyed?

Or why was Liara allowed to go down to the planet with me when the ending shows her on the jungle world with Joker? If that was an intention wouldn't it have not been possible?

How about the fact that, minutes earlier, the Normandy arrives above Earth...but then is somehow at the Charon Relay when it blows, which would have taken hours at least when only ten or twenty minutes had passed?

Jannie said...

Also it's ironic that this ending actually makes more sense and has fewer plot holes than the one in Mass Effect 3.

I mean...this is still childish and smug and so meta I can practically TASTE the hipster oozing out of the screen...but at least a smug, childish, needlessly meta ending is better than one that is poorly written.

Or put another way, using a pro wrestling example: CM Punk is better than X-Pac, if only because the smug, meta, unfunny Punk is at least a competent wrestler.

Mads said...

@ Jannie:

I went over those questions in the other blog post commentary thread, you can poke your head inthere if you want to talk about 'em.

Jannie said...

Ah, I just checked that Mads.

That's actually a surprisingly detailed explanation, it actually offers reasons for things and uses canon and has actual evidence. Kind of like the indoctrination fanon ending.

Crazy thing is, after Lost pulled one of these "Hey fans, here's an indecisive ending, talk amongst yourselves!" things on me I don't know why I wasn't more prepared for it. I guess the clarity of vision and follow through of ME 1 and 2 lulled me into a false sense of security.

Though I'm a little iffy about the "its a different explosion" part inasmuch that I'm not certain a giant ball of plasma (?) is..."safe" I guess is the term...even if its some kind of Element Zero "plasma wave" and not caused by some other, non-dark matter means. That part is more of a stretch than the rest cause it relies more on unknowns as opposed to more obvious fanon patches, like "the ship has unusually fast engines", which is explicit in the actual canon. Then again at least that idea prevents billions of deaths so yeah, fingers crossed they were just non-lethal Element Zero explosions. At least it means I didn't help a buggy AI commit several dozen acts of genocide three times in a row.

Xaos said...

Angry Joe's new video talks about the indoctination Theory.

I've read "Plot analysis" concepts like these before (Did you know Necron from FF9 was actually the Lifa tree? Neither did I until I read the mad ramblings of a random person on Gamefaqs.) but I do have to say that this one is actually pretty good. Halfway through Joe's video, I started to agree that a whole lot of it makes sense. Nothing in the ending makes sense because its all Reaper-induced Hallucination, and there have been weird things happening to Shepard throughout the game with might support the idea s/he's not in their right state of mind.

Anyway...the choice Shep makes at the end determines whether s/he becomes fully brainwashed or not.

This...if true, this might change my opinion of the story...I cannot bring myself to be anything other than proud of everyone who voiced dissension. (Even if their apparent "Victory" over Bioware might itself not be real...which I'm about to get into), but it might save the credibility of the story. (Although how the poor player is supposed to understand the metaphorical meaning behind all of this bullshit and real the consequences of their actions in the game as it stands is beyond me.)

But notice: This means that they WITHELD the real ending, always intending to release it as DLC (Bioware has "caved" to Retake ME and promised "Content iniatives" in April). BIOWARE DIDN'T "GIVE IN", THEY TRICKED US! All of us.

And that means that all their squirming is just part of the show. They might even have WANTED people to get upset! But...they still cannot let anything slip in either case, which might explain why they "caved" so quickly. In fact, now that I think about it: April IS a little soon for them to give us a brand, spanking new ending(s)...

I guess we'll see what happens in April. I hope that all of you all realize that if they charge a single penny for the "real ending" and people complain, that you have no leg to stand on to bemoan about "entitlement." They will have gone from insulting the players to swindling them. Putting on a huge production and making people feel "ungrateful" if they don't buy the ending they already paid for!

Selling the ending to games is a market practice that NEEDS to be nipped in the bud.

Yeah, I think that even if the story is "saved", that I might not feel right about getting into Mass Effect. All these poor people being strung along like some sort of toy.

I haven't spent a dime on Mass Effect, but even so, I feel ...humiliated. Humiliated for caring.


Child's Play actually had positive things to say about the movement...they just worry about it being a slippery slope. They didn't shut down Retake Mass Effect (they met their goal. Its too late for that, dumbass.) They shut down this from occuring again as a pre-emptive PR/damage control move. They haven't even taken fire yet, they just got spooked.

Anonymous said...

I think the best endings are the ones that leave the audience feeling unfulfilled and maybe unsettled.

Can you imagine if fans petitioned because they didn't like the ending of "The Departed" or something?

Mads said...

Well, it's a homebrew theory. But you're right. The only thing in the canon that speaks about the end game pulses is the catalyst, and it's difficult to know to what degree it can be trusted.

The catalyst appears to be ancient technology, and the architect of the pattern...but part of it is in the citadel, and it interfaces with the crucible which has apparently been designed for it, and it provides new options, new solutions.

Following this, it's not impossible that the crucible did have a good understanding of everything. It's pretty incomprehensible that synthetics would be more destructive than the reapers, since synthetics would probably also simply leave underdeveloped organics alone... but whatever. Suppose he's right and this is the only way, right? Well destroying all organic life in the galaxy because you cause a massive number of supernova explosions isn't what he's offering; he's pretty explicit in saying what things are going to be destroyed.

I mean, why would he talk about the geth and EDI if everything ultimately dies - that doesn't seem like a particularly reasonable thing.

For that matter, would the catalyst, ostensibly tasked with protecting things after a fact, really accept that amount of wanton destruction?

Anyway, what is completely clear is that the explosion isn't of the same type; it's a chain reaction type thing that spreads accross relays, which is clearly not what went on in arrival.

Still, a lot of assumptions, but I do think there's enough ambiguity in the current ending that Bioware can ammend it without retcons.

Anonymous said...

I can agree with that, unfortunately most feel that Mass Effect achieved neither.

If the 'indoctrination theory' had been included since the very beginning. It may have been one of the greatest endings ever, throwing everyone for a loop.

But with the way things stand, most feel that Bioware wrote it in such a way that explained nothing and only promised a pop up prompt at the end urging to buy future DLC.

Sylocat said...

Also relevant.

Mads said...

@ Sylocats link and thread:

Honestly, at this point, you're just trolling ME fans to see if you can get some kind of hillarious reaction out of them.

It's not even about making a statement, it's just about flipping people off because you think they're retards.

Which is fine, but disguising it as a pseudo-defence of artistic freedom and control makes you a fucking prick.

Own it. Tell us straight up that you like to tease angry fanboys for your own amusement. At least be fucking genuine about it.

Anonymous said...

What is with the inclusion of My Little Pony in these endings?

A far better satirical take on this matter is having Bioware state that their artistic integrity will not be compromised by zealous rabid fans. Then have a shady EA executive behind him pickpocketing said artistic integrity and package it as DLC for ten bucks.

Hope you enjoy that new ending!

Anonymous said...

Another day, another person who fails to understand the drive behind the protests. It's not that it was a 'bleak' ending - those have worked in the past. It's that all player agency was removed, plot holes were opened, and there was a quite literal deus ex machina in the Catalyst.

Start actually reading some of the complaints, guys. Is it that hard?

Popcorn Dave said...

I'm pretty sure they planned it, Xaos. EA would LOVE to charge people extra for the endings to games, and this is a great way to get their foot in the door while making it look like they're "listening to their loyal fans". If EA did deliberately withhold the ending the fans have every right to expect it to be given for free, as they paid EA for a complete product and EA didn't deliver, but of course, the real ending will cost $15 and if anyone objects it means they're "entitled" and people like Bob will sneer "you didn't expect the developers to work for free did you?". Seriously, fuck the games industry and fuck anyone who tries to defend it.

ScrewAttackSamus said...


Yes, that's indeed a problem; WHICH fans do you listen to?

Nixou said...

Hilarious. Hopefully they can cook up another parody mocking those idiots whining about that stupid kung-fu reptile cartoon.

Doug Walker already did it brilliantly


If this ending was the original artistic vision of the creators then why does it contain several plot holes and inaccuracies that contradict the previously established canon?

It does not contains "plot holes and inaccuracies that contradict the previously established canon": it' just the "Harcore Gamer" trying to give their "Whaaaaaaaaaa, my wish fulfilment fantasy did not end up the way I wanted" tantrum a veneer of rationality.

Mads said...


If you can't win the argument by reasoning it out, then do an ad hominem, that always works, right?

Wellp, guess what: If you do that, you're a dick. Congratulations dickmeister.

MovieBob said...

@BobBriggs I really need to lay out the difference between "I don't like this" and "I don't like this and I KNOW BETTER THAN YOU AND I AM GOING TO HOLD MY BREATH AND STAMP MY FEET UNTIL YOU CHANGE IT TO EXACTLY THE WAY I WANT IT TO BE"?

I have ZERO issue with people complaining about an ending they didn't like. Where I begin to have an issue is with the notion that they are "owed" a better ending, and I take MASSIVE exception to the whole "we're entitled to demand change because fans are now partial-authors" notion.

BobBriggs said...


So what would have been the better solution? If that vocal 'minority' was indeed powerful enough to force Bioware to buckle under pressure (even though that message by Casey Hudson admitted nothing about any new endings) would it have been better if all the fans vowed never to give Bioware and their products money in the future, thus forcing them to either seriously reconsider their practices or become another dead developer?

I understand that the fans are demanding too much, but this has been a long time coming for Bioware. Ever since they had been acquired by EA they have been slowly succumbing to the same faults that EA is notorious for. I feel that the defense of artistic integrity is moot if you are in the hands of EA. I know you have no love for EA Bob, what with your absolute hatred of Madden riding up their with COD ruining the gaming market. But I refuse to believe for a instant that Madden and other games has been ruined by EA but somehow Bioware has been untouched by it. I've seen far more developers artistic integrity ruined by the likes of EA far more than having their fans bitch about changing things. Just look at Obsidian, makers of Fallout NV. They are now in dire straits because they got a 84 on metacritic instead of 85, losing out on that bonus that was promised to them under such conditions. I feel that because of that, their 'artistic integrity' will be stifled because they were forced to lay off their employees. At least Bioware has the ability to complain about defending their artistic vision, they still get to make the games they want without the fear of it being cancelled.

I apologize if I sound snarky, mean, or cynical, but I feel the case of video games as art is lost when trying to defend it on EA Bioware. Fans may act very childish, but I see the same in you when you take to twitter and make the most absurd proclamations as if the end times were upon us.

I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I can't watch this new OT. I suspect it will contain nothing but an argument about how the fans ruin everything, and I have grown tired of everybody in the 'journalism' industry, including yourself stooping to internet mud slinging levels. All this may not have been the fans fault, most likely wasn't even Bioware's fault, but most likely EA's fault in their short sighted desire for a cash grab in the name of DLC and future installments. Since I doubt you will touch on this, I can't watch your video on good faith because of it.

Jannie said...

Movie Bob:

Seeing as Bioware promised SIXTEEN different endings ("wildly different" was their exact words) and that you WOULDN'T have to choose between A, B and C I have trouble seeing how this is being "entitled" to anything. They promised sixteen endings and provided ONE, if anything Bioware should be glad that its customers are willing to look past this if the one we get just isn't gut-chruningly stupid.

The way I see it, Bioware went back on a promise, a promise they used to falsely advertise the game. AFTERWARDS the entire internet shit itself inside out with much-due rage. People I know are cancelling their The Old Republic accounts and stores are accepting open-box trade ins of the game mere weeks after it was released.

People are pissed, royally pissed, and rightly so for being LIED TO not for getting a shitty ending.

If all it was was a shitty ending, no one would care. If it were just unsatisfying no one would care. For me, if this was just ONE of two endings, say the Renegade one, I wouldn't even bat an eye and just shrug and start the next playthrough. But the thing is, this ending is ALL THREE endings, with no real variation, and as such it is both a lie and a disservice to sell the game promising "sixteen wildly different endings" and you get precisely one, with three different photoshop filters.

And you know what...if Roger Ebert doesn't "take us seriously" because, God forbid, gamers refuse to be directly lied to and have products (yes, products) sold to us which are clearly NOT as advertised then ask him how he would feel if someone sold him a copy of Casablanca and five minutes before the end it switches to an episode of 227. Because that's what happened.

Also, I hate to break it to everyone, but Bathesda already dis this AND Bioware. Dragon Age had a shit ending no one liked, so they released DLC to fix it--but no one gives two shits about Dragon Age so it didn't make a blip on the internet; meanwhile Fallout 3 had a hilariously bad ending which required DLC to fix, but it made even less of a blip because Bathesda IMMEDIATELY came out and said "Ooops, my bad you guys, we'll take care of that" and it was on the internet for all of an hour before word got around it was being dealt with and it vanished up the web's tubes forever.

In this case, Bioware spent days trying and failing at PR damage control, now they're trying to bribe people with free stuff with this "Operation Goliath" nonsense, all before eventually saying they'd fix it in the most passive-aggressive way possible. Hence this gets WAY more press than it should, and is taking WAY longer to deal with than Dragon Age or Fallout 3.

Jannie said...

For those who doubt what I mean, the first page or so of this behemoth thread explains it:

It's locked now, by the way. Cause, you know, obviously if you shoot the messenger the message vanishes into the ether obvious-OH WAIT!

Mads said...

Where I begin to have an issue is with the notion that they are "owed" a better ending, and I take MASSIVE exception to the whole "we're entitled to demand change because fans are now partial-authors" notion.
Where's the exact distinction then? When you said noone deserved "the hangover 2" sequel, that's using the language of entitlement too! The entitlement to not be exposed to crap!

When you oppinionate on movies, you attempt to give accurate appreciation of those movies. As a matter of fact, when you give a recommendation, which I know is rare, you inherently say "well, this movie gives you what you are owed for your time and the cost of the ticket at the movies, and it is therefore worth it".

I could just as easily frame all the criticism you pump out in terms of entitlement.

So where's the distinction to retake mass effect? Why is that not just a particular kind of appreciation and criticism? Is it purely a matter of language and lawsuits? Because if so we can fast agree that those who seriously use the language of entitlement in this case are pillocks.

But the general message of the movement is not one of entitlement and dictatorship, rather, it is one of protest, one of request.

Jannie said...

I know I already posted a link here and I'm not one to just throw out a link to some website and say "lol check this out it bolsters my point!" but really I have to put something out there.

Jim Stevenson, a guy who knows his stuff and writes for a living, basically says everything that the Retake Mass Effect movement has been saying but does so with prettier words and bigger ones too and I would be remiss without at least directing people to read this phenomenal deconstruction and denouncement of the ME3 ending he wrote. He tears Bioware a new asshole using logic and awesome words and ends with this spine-shattering uppercut:

"No one with any artistic integrity would have let that absolute debacle of an ending be released. No one. The ending was so inexcusable on so many levels, that I can’t help but laugh at people’s attempts to defend it by calling it art. As if Art were not subject to ridicule and criticism."

It's an excellent read, and I would suggest those in opposition to changing the ending skim through it at least to see what, precisely, is wrong with this. It also goes into the Indoctrination Ending which he offers a very logical explanation for why it seems so prevalent--and I admit I was skeptical at first...but Jim Stevenson does make a good argument for it.

Anyway, so yeah, Jim Stevenson.

Anonymous said...

"Own it. Tell us straight up that you like to tease angry fanboys for your own amusement. At least be fucking genuine about it. "

OK, fine, I'll do that. The giant fucking internet-wide hissy fit that people have thrown over the ME3 ending is pretty damn hilarious.

Whether you think it's just bad, or Bioware went back on their promises, or it's got plotholes, or it's not heroic enough, or it "disregarded player agency", or whatever, this shit is not unprecedented in video games. The choices you make in a Bioware RPG are only a limited abstraction of real-world choice, and any reasonable adult playing one of their games should be able to see that the player has no choice or freedom in the game world beyond what is represented by this abstraction, and since this is the third game, it can only be assumed that players have been willing to accept that through at least two previous games. And seriously, I would bet my left arm that every person complaining about this ending would highly rate at least one other game that has as bad or worse storytelling issues.

So, yeah, if you seriously think that Bioware should change the ending you are being immature and dumb basically. You are being the worst sort of fan. Stop acting that way, and game journalists will stop making fun of you.

Hyperme said...

@MovieBob I really need to lay out the difference between "I don't like this" and "I don't like this and I KNOW BETTER THAN YOU AND I AM GOING TO HOLD MY BREATH AND STAMP MY FEET UNTIL YOU CHANGE IT TO EXACTLY THE WAY I WANT IT TO BE"?

Because of course, this is completely different from how you seem to constantly bash First Person Shooters.


Also, what I've heard of the ending makes me assume some Deus Ex Machina appears and hands you a solution. Which is pretty bad writing. If an option to refuse the crazy AI's solution had been around, there would probably be less bitching.

Anonymous said...

I really hope the indoctrination theory isn't right. It is a fan theory, so it almost certainly isn't.

The indoctrination theory makes the problems of the ending so much worse. Didn't like the lack of closure? Hated being forced into 3 choices? Now we can have a story where nothing you saw was real and none of the choices you made even matter! Big improvement people.

Anonymous said...

"Hated being forced into 3 choices"

I really had to laugh at that one. Yeah more like 3 choices that ended in the same result.

Marcomax said...

@ Jannie and Moviebob

Thank both of you for the links. The Frozen Synapse video was pretty funny while the Jim Stevenson article was very informative. I tried not to just skim it and I would recommend anyone who's interested to read it.

I also didn't know about the Fallout 3 and Dragon Age examples. Did the DLC change the endings or did they add a new section on top of the old ending to change it?

I'm starting to realize that the reason I'm not as peeved with the ending is because I've forgotten a lot that happened in the first Mass Effect. Even through I got around the same time Mass Effect 2 came out. In a way I've always thought of Mass Effect as a single game (2) with a prequel (1) and a sequel (3). My attachment to the series isn't that strong so I'm fine with just letting things play out.

I'm really looking forward to finally seeing the episode tonight. I can't believe I've posted so much about the topic without seeing it. I think I might have an idea of where Movie Bob is coming from on this topic, but to be sure I want to wait for the episode. I post later in that topic. I remember on twitter Bob talked about two episodes for the Mass Effect topic. I wonder if that's still the plan or just an old plan.

Anonymous said...

I can't wait to see this new GOT episode.

In fact, I can predict with 100% accuracy that Bob is going take a position and make a statement so inflammatory, it'll make the Other M debacle look like small potatoes.

All the goodwill he's built up will be vaporized in the ensuing flame war, Mads and Jennie leading the charge with Aiddon trying to staunch the flow of hatred and bile. TvTropes's Dethroning Moment of Suck page will be flooded with new entries all pertaining to this episode, the comments section will break the triple digit count, cats and dogs living together, mass hysteria!

I haven't been this excited since the launch of Mass Effect 3.

Anonymous said...

I don't know man, I think he already topped himself with those tweets.

Who knew a 160 character limit was the perfect recipe for posting the most ridiculous shit ever seen by human eyes.

ScrewAttackSamus said...

Oh hell no, I don't try to staunch the bile. I will GLADLY let people humiliate themselves in public if they so please. If they wanna act like a bunch of five-year-olds, that's their prerogative. Just don't expect to be given respect like a decent human being.

Jannie said...

I'm glad to know you feel that way Aidon. Its interesting that you're so defensive about a game you don't care about as to refuse to treat people like humans beings (your words, not mine) if they disagree with you.

Petulent and stupid, but interesting nonetheless. Tell me, where was all this defense of artistic license when you were decrying the story of Modern Warfare 3? Because it seems you're just going out of your way to be contrary towards people who disagree with Bob in general, and me in particular.

Or I could be wrong and you really DO flip through such a vast emotional range as to scream bloody murder and demand a WHOLE GAME FRANCHISE vanish one day and the next defend the choices of another franchise to the death, going so far as to declare people who protest it's ending shouldn't expect to even be treated as human beings.

Frankly I envy your frighteningly broad and kaleidoscopic emotional range and ability to straightfacedly conjure self-contradictory, passive-aggressive insults from thin air like some kind of hipster mage.

Anonymous said...


Explains why you haven't tried to stop Moviebob huh?


But really wasting comments now would be pointless, save em up for when the TO comes out, then we can all let the shit flow forth from both sides of the table.

Kevin Winsor said...

HAHA! They really deserved it. It's pretty interesting! :D

Xaos said...

" "

Actually, the indoctination theory makes the three choices actually IMPORTANT, because that means that the player may have given into indoctination without realizing it. The "indoctination" theory isn't about "Shepard already lost his mind and so none of this is real." its more like "Shepard was gradually being taken over, but up until the end of the game was still very much in tune with reality. The whole "unlimited ammo" segment of the game was a dream. Only picking the destroy option would save his mind, and the other two would make him a Reaper pawn."

They were all UNIMPORTANT, because you detonate the Mass relays (read: BLOW UP THE GODDAMN GALAXY) with all three. Which is why even with the indoctination theory, the writers are just stupid. Or different people. Even if Shepard wasn't in a normal state of mine, you'd think that he'd at least pay attention to the fact that ANY OF THE THREE OPTIONS WOULD CAUSE THE APOCOLYPSE.

But if its real, then yeah. There is no reason to buy any "Epilogue" content or another Mass Effect game UNLESS they change the ending because everybody is dead.

And even if they aren't, the setting is basically unsalvagable if the galaxy is not cut off from one another.

Mads said...

Did the DLC change the endings or did they add a new section on top of the old ending to change it?
DLC in Dragon Age retcons, in comic parlance mind you, the final outcome of certain characters and fates. In DA2, it canonizes many of your decisions in the first one, invalidating them if they were 'wrong'.
In Fallout 3, they merely patched the ending. No explanation, no's just different, because it sucked before, and have a nice day.

@ Anonymous March 25 2012 8:51
I shall be happy to provide you with an evenings entertainment if it is within my power to muster up some silly antics for you to laugh at ;-)
I don't think it'll be that complicated though. This discussion it's core...fairly simple: "How harsh a critic are you allowed to be before you're unreasonable" ? Can you tell people something is crap? Can you tell people that they should only enjoy things which are better? Can you directly and openly say that the author needs to do these things better in the next one? Can you say that the author should've done some specific things differently in this one? Can you say that if the author would actually change this one in this fashion, it would be better? Can you say that in fact the author should make this change for the sake of future consumers? Can you say that the author should in fact make these changes available to current consumers who have already paid, in order to earn back goodwill doubtlessly lost with them?
And you know, I do have a distinct sense I'm going to be calling Bob a hipocrite on this one, because I think he's going to put out answers for this thing that are going to be different from answers he's put out in the past. But whatever, I'll listen to what he has to say.
Thing is, either way...noones gonna feel like arguing with me over it =P

@ Jannie
"hipster mage"...There's a meme there waiting to happen.