tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6031707140462457270.post3549209998067839221..comments2024-03-27T18:36:43.527-07:00Comments on The GAME OVERTHINKER: Episode 62: "Seeing Red"MovieBobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00226832228090053258noreply@blogger.comBlogger71125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6031707140462457270.post-84627088591050408342012-01-12T15:59:34.818-08:002012-01-12T15:59:34.818-08:00I would love for them to make a genuine miltary FP...I would love for them to make a genuine miltary FPS. That is to say, you spend the entire game in an army base, doing next to nothing, trying to pass the time, trying to cope with both the intense boredom, and the eventual paranoia from a freak roadside bombing that kills a friend of a friend, and from not having the opportunity to shoot any visible enemy.<br /><br />As for the episode: I think you're writing off the modern FPS too soon and not giving them enough credit. FPSs, for all their brash, popcorn portrayals of war, do tend to explore the horrors of war and show the ambiguity of conflict (murdering civilians, playing as sinister, back hand SAS, slaughtering dehumanised white blobs from a gunship etc.). They are still monumentally crass, but they have grown up a lot. <br /><br />For once, I'd love to hear Bob imply Mario encourages jingoism (unambiguous enemies, humourous portrayals of killing, international stereotypes etc.). It would only be slightly more silly than his condemning Hollywood style, dumb FPSs.maninahathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11831274516104531283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6031707140462457270.post-5761941172808253932012-01-09T07:53:01.809-08:002012-01-09T07:53:01.809-08:00While I have the totally original opinion of not p...While I have the totally original opinion of not particularly loving the skit stuff, I'll admit, the last sequence really got a good chuckle out of me.Hunternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6031707140462457270.post-73747108641308918832012-01-07T13:06:51.203-08:002012-01-07T13:06:51.203-08:00A deep, thought provoking episode.
This, alongside...A deep, thought provoking episode.<br />This, alongside "Setting Sun" is going on the list of my favorite episodes of the GO series.<br /><br />Also, kudos for mentioning Metal Gear twice in one episode intwo different contexts.<br /><br />And yes Retrothinker, 16-bit Donkey Kong WAS FUCKING AMAZING...but these days the first sequel to it (DKC2) would be top dog.<br /><br />Good job Mr. Chipman.Antonio Blackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14992081084329398528noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6031707140462457270.post-40801210893075666532012-01-02T07:40:19.543-08:002012-01-02T07:40:19.543-08:00Story sucks as usual, but seriously, Bob: ENOUGHT ...Story sucks as usual, but seriously, Bob: ENOUGHT WITH THE FPS HATE ALREADY!!! People enjoy playing online, and I'm one of them. Sure, I don't care about CoD anymore, but BF3 is probably the best multiplayer I've ever played. <br /><br />Sure, I do think that the game's singleplayer should have been better (not that it needed one, considering that BF2 didn't), but that doesn't take away from how good the multiplayer is.Markushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02686355472723238644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6031707140462457270.post-71038818222639669592011-12-29T19:40:17.352-08:002011-12-29T19:40:17.352-08:00Wow, first time I liked the storyline part of the ...Wow, first time I liked the storyline part of the episode. I think the overlap between the story and the discussion fit together overall better and you should defiantly consider that kind of harmony in the future. It was also very topical in the story portion itself instead of just being a written plot.<br /><br />The discussion was good as always and I really do think the gaming community should discuss the issue maturely.Karl Kabliskhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00715771848982874566noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6031707140462457270.post-46374703301243126832011-12-27T19:48:27.512-08:002011-12-27T19:48:27.512-08:00I see your point, although you most remember how B...I see your point, although you most remember how Bob looks at the past with his nostalgic filter, how can a nostalgic past measure up to the present unless the past was horrible.<br />There where games with grit back then too. Perhaps he is just blind to present colorful games because he has matured passed their appeal.<br />I think I remember Bob mentioning that he was not in on the Pokemon thing, which is a colorful series still going to this day, why is it that he does not embrace such games? Why does he not play RavingRabbids? And why has he never even mentioned Super Monkeyball? Or EliteBeatAgent?<br />Now we are of course entering the handhold market, something I do not follow, where there can be found a wast number of games for kids. But my knowledge of that platform is too limited to make a statement, however I can agree that there is a lack of games for kids on larger consoles.<br />However even if this was rectified it would surprise me a lot if me, you or Bob would be attracted to these games.<br /><br />- RattleHuntHunt77https://www.blogger.com/profile/04369659950425351104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6031707140462457270.post-45739944543507742412011-12-27T18:44:23.806-08:002011-12-27T18:44:23.806-08:00Even though there's a lot to look forward too,...Even though there's a lot to look forward too, it's a lot darker and grittier than the rose-colored time the Retrothinker's from. Culture shock alone will make him go nuts. But to see exactly what's happening at the moment...<br /><br />Actually, he's from a time BEFORE Internet, so it's probably a completely foreign concept for him. And with DLC, it's going to be something he can't quite grasp.<br /><br />Not to mention, there are bound to be people on the Internet to pop that overenthusiastic bubble of his, so yeah...Smashmatt202https://www.blogger.com/profile/05993678210896932119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6031707140462457270.post-20879830752110715852011-12-27T18:03:58.444-08:002011-12-27T18:03:58.444-08:00"So much different games to talk about, so mu..."So much different games to talk about, so much innovation happening every day, so much to look forward to, so much potential" <br /><br />That pretty much describes the current gaming state too. If gaming no longer excites you there is nothing wrong with mowing on.<br />As for me gaming is still very exciting and soon we might be moving on to games being more creative and less constrictive within the confines of it's technical limitations, as Rage so nicely showcased like a teaser for the future. It's fascinating how a game with such an unfortunately bland setting could still be so unique through it's art direction. A good looking FPS on the chart of the black to brown specter, how bizarre right. This is but one of many gaming wonders this year and I am happy to experience it.<br /><br />Excuse me while I go back to Skyrim, which I am trying to get to while swimming through the other games I wish to finish. So little time...<br /><br />-RattleHuntHunt77https://www.blogger.com/profile/04369659950425351104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6031707140462457270.post-92038007947502098722011-12-27T07:48:52.090-08:002011-12-27T07:48:52.090-08:00FLUTTERSHY! I LOVE YOU SO MUCH, FLUTTERSHY, you&#...FLUTTERSHY! I LOVE YOU SO MUCH, FLUTTERSHY, you're so cute! Bob, you HAVE to talk about Friendship is Magic sometime on The Big Picture!<br /><br />Okay, hold on a moment, the Retrothinker is purposefully being wrong here, just so Bob can go on about who awesome the past was. The time of the video is supposed to be 1990, right? KIRBY DID NOT EXIST YET! His first game, Kirby's Dream Land, was released in 1991. Also, "16-bit Donkey Kong"? Does he mean a 16-bit version of the classic arcade game? Hm? And why no mention of Metroid or Kid Icarus or anything else? Get your facts straight, Bob, because it only serves to make you look bad.<br /><br />Yeah, I remember back in the day when war was about "good vs. evil". Or at least I would, if I was old enough to experience World War II. Instead I was born after that... And Vietnam, and all those other crazy wars that weren't about "good vs. evil", and didn't have complete support from the citizens of America...<br /><br />Say, Bob goes on about how Rambo is over the tope and a "fun" war movie, except... Well, that's Rambo: First Blood Part II. What about First Blood?<br /><br />Oh yeah, my day was talking to me about Modern Warfare 3 the other day. See, he's big on stocks, and wonders if he should invest in the companies that makes these kinds of games. I honestly didn't know what to say. I DON'T want to support that kind of thing, but if they're making money, and that's all my dad wants, then I don't see why not...<br /><br />Oh yeah, I remember when I was put on trial in Chrono Trigger, and I ended up getting in trouble for taking the necklace first before talking to Marle, AND for eating that one guy's lunch! It really made me think about what I was doing...<br /><br />Boy, is the Retrothinker going to be in for a shock... Kind of an idiot, but his overenthusiasm is getting in the way of basic thought.<br /><br />Man, if he's going to get shocked about video games, wait until he finds out all the OTHER huge advances... Like iPhones and smart phones!<br /><br />Oh God... of ALL the games he had to come across! Bomberman: Act Zero... He's going to be in for something with that one...Smashmatt202https://www.blogger.com/profile/05993678210896932119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6031707140462457270.post-44710592407736662262011-12-27T07:48:41.111-08:002011-12-27T07:48:41.111-08:00Dammit, Bob, you need to get yourself some more pe...Dammit, Bob, you need to get yourself some more people to help you out with these kinds of things. Having you play all the major characters is fine, but the Retrothinker looks EXACTLY LIKE the Overthinker...<br /><br />...Maybe that's not a coincidence?<br /><br />So, um, does Retro mean old, specifically, or is it just an off-hand for cool that nowadays only refers to a specific time period?<br /><br />I WOULD be with Ivan on this, if I really knew what "retro" was...<br /><br />Oh yeah, I get what's going on... Retrothinker is announcing stuff and acting totally excited about EVERYTHING that's going on. A very far-cry from gaming shows these days... You know, if they were ever on TV... Fucking G4.<br /><br />I can't help but think this "Retrothinker" is just Bob's way of saying Gaming was so much more "fun" back then, and while I don't mean to kill his buzz, but I can't help but feel that's the nostalgia talking.<br /><br />HOLY CRAP, I'VE BEEN LIVING UNDER A ROCK! D:<br /><br />And OH BOY! Another episode where Bob goes up against military first-person shooters! Isn't THAT a nice change in pace! Although personally, I think FPS's deserve most of the flack Bob gives them, but it really is getting old by this point.<br /><br />So, Red Cross has good intentions, but it doesn't seem to know how to go about fixing the problem...<br /><br />Oh wait, I think I can see where this is going... Gamers are attacking the Red Cross because they have something negative to say about video games. And really, to anyone who DOES do such a think, SCREW YOU man. >:(<br /><br />...Or woman, because I'm sure there are a couple of female gamers out there who are like that, too.<br /><br />Yeah... Now Bob HIMSELF is sick of continuously going back to this point, just like everyone else, but really, this is something that HAS TO STOP!<br /><br />Really, Bob was going to talk about Dizzy coming back? Say, when was the last "Who's your daddy?" episode? Hell, when was the last "fun" episode, instead of always talking about controversy?<br /><br />Not that I don't like talking about important issues like this, but still, nice to throw in a fun episode every now and then.Smashmatt202https://www.blogger.com/profile/05993678210896932119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6031707140462457270.post-64242145208940357372011-12-27T01:19:49.757-08:002011-12-27T01:19:49.757-08:00How can the retrothinker know about kirby if the v...How can the retrothinker know about kirby if the video was recorded in 1990? The first kirby game was released in 1992.Salem Rnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6031707140462457270.post-40364678908561276362011-12-24T21:42:31.292-08:002011-12-24T21:42:31.292-08:00I'm guessing this Retrothinker story arc will ...I'm guessing this Retrothinker story arc will go in one of two directions.<br /><br />1. "Older generations were better, newer generations suck."<br /><br />2. "Old generations were awesome, and the new one seems bad at first, but is actually quite good."<br /><br />I really hope case 2 is the case, because that simply just makes more sense. There are so many great things happening today that would absolutely blow Retrothinker's mind if he were a real person. Just think about the fact that you can play Super Street Fighter II ONLINE against opponents halfway across the world, get FULL GAMES for less than $3 on a Steam sale (and most of the indie ones would run on even crappy computers!), Nintendo is STILL at the top of it's game after all these years. We've seen the rise and fall of many different companies since Retrothinker's "time". Capcom and Atari aren't really who they used to be at all, but yet we have Valve being one of the best in the industry since 1998, consistently making good games. You can simply buy games and from your console or PC and have them download while you play something else! You don't even have to make a trip to the store. Hearing info about upcoming games is no longer "Wait to find out what we say in this magazine about it", but "Look on the internet, there's all these screenshots and videos of a new Donkey Kong Country platformer!"<br /><br />This generation has it's problems and quirks, like day 1 DLC, nickle-and-diming Facebook games, Playstation services getting hacked, and the like, but can you really say the old gen was perfect? Back then getting help on a game was not as simple as looking something up on GameFAQs, you had to call a hotline or buy a strategy guide. Controllers kept you on a short leash close to the TV, which depending on your room could have been uncomfortable for you. For some games, did you get a used copy of it with no instructions with it? Well enjoy missing out on half of the storyline of games like Metroid, and not knowing what the hell is going on nor what some sprites are supposed to be. Now they can put these details in the game so you don't have to hope you got an instruction manual with it. Hell, some of these games come with a digital form of the manual.<br /><br />Retrothinker's mind would just be blown by Super Mario 3D Land I'm sure. I barely mentioned the indie game boom. He would play Cave Story and think it was released the day after he was cryogenically frozen, when it was really released in 2004!<br /><br />The best part? They don't forget the old generations either. Legacy PC games? We have those on Steam and GoG, so entirely new generations of players can enjoy them. Missed out on a bunch of NES and SNES games? Get yourself a Wii and go get them on Virtual Console! Have a hard time looking at games like Ocarina of Time just because you weren't around for that generation? The 3DS remake would be right up your alley, and still retains everything that made the game great!<br /><br />Every generation has it's quirks and problems, but this one is still just as amazing as back in the 8-bit days. I hope Retrothinker is written to appreciate all the advances that have been made since his "time", and not just see the Call of Duties and Angry Birds flying about.Hylian7https://www.blogger.com/profile/16217153008761181760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6031707140462457270.post-34084725225226101332011-12-22T09:05:30.094-08:002011-12-22T09:05:30.094-08:00@ Jannie
You give me too much credit =P ...I only ...@ Jannie<br />You give me too much credit =P ...I only looked things up when I read your last post and thought to myself "wait, some of that cannot be right, but I'll need to look over the evidence to be sure..."<br /><br />Wish I had read it earlier, then I may have made better points to begin with.<br /><br />Also in your defense, many media outlets were being unclear.<br /><br />And be advised that the FAQ ICRC posted is a damage-control type thing. You'll note that it's posted significantly after the fact, and that the original community talks, which were supposedly informal, may have been just as boneheaded as you assumed them to be - I don't actually know for sure, because I couldn't find a summary of the during the brief time I spent looking.<br /><br />So there's a couple of caveats, and the confusion is understandable...and the real issue appears to have been, journalists suck.Madshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05061888501151043115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6031707140462457270.post-20170240117814678112011-12-22T07:33:26.171-08:002011-12-22T07:33:26.171-08:00To everyone arguing About the Red Cross Argument (...To everyone arguing About the Red Cross Argument (Moviebob included) You're argument is pointed in the wrong direction.<br /><br />I'm willing to bet that like most people, Bob got this comment about the ICRC through conventional news media who has been hyping up the "war criminal" aspect to a considerable degree. The Cynical Brit also received his source of the article from a similar source with similar results. The ICRC was, shall we say not impressed. So much so that they contacted the host and directly informed him of the truth. There was no special conference on video games as was reported, it was just a regular meeting held on schedule and the topic happened to come up.<br /><br />To add, the response wasn't that gamers are "war criminals" and need to be treated as such (once again as reported) but a statement of facts similar to what Bob surmised that if what was done in these games was brought to real life then yeah, it would be war crimes.<br /><br />Finally there was no call for regulation or restrictions (and yet again as reported) but an ardent plea to developers that if they're going to try for realism that they constantly claim, to try for something beyond graphical fidelity, such as the legal ramifications.<br /><br />The outcry and arguments about this is not about what the ICRC actually said, but how the more mainstream news media who somehow feel threatened by games reported it as another anti games rant. Stupid really.lordlundarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6031707140462457270.post-49213625455157724252011-12-22T04:08:58.416-08:002011-12-22T04:08:58.416-08:00Well then I have no idea what all this about the G...Well then I have no idea what all this about the Geneva Convention came from, because if that's the case then it completely changes what the actual argument was. I was under the impression, from what was said in the video and by others, that this had to do with the actual protocols of the Geneva Convention being violated somehow but if that's not so then clearly I was wrong. That's embarrassing, but that's my fault--that's what I get for not looking it up, so thank you Mads I was wrong and I appreciate you pointing that out to me, and actually I find I agree with them. <br /><br />Though in my defense, from what some people said in response I get the impression none of us actually read the thing but you since people were arguing what is or isn't following the protocols of just war when they said that isn't an issue to begin with, in black and white. <br /><br />If I understand it they are saying that some games, because they depict war, should take pains to make sure characters don't violate the rules of war, but then they go on to flatly say they think its not much of a problem to begin with: <br /><br />"A few media reported that certain virtual acts performed by characters in video games could amount to serious violations of the law of armed conflict. Is this correct?<br /><br />No. Serious violations of the laws of war can only be committed in real-life situations, not in video games."<br /><br />So yeah, the thing is, I don't think any of us (me especially) actually were aware of what was being said since at a glance I really don't see how this became about the Geneva Convention when it actually says basically that they don't feel it's being violated to begin with. Because even Bob seemed to be under the impression this was somehow about the Geneva Convention when it clearly isn't, and says so. <br /><br />It's weird but I guess, or more I think, this is one of those cases where the information got filtered around the internet till it came to Bob who conveyed it to us and by going through so many channels the original intent was lost like a game of telephone. At any rate I concede that I was mistaken about the actual context of what had been said but in my defense so was everyone else apparently, looking at the comments made.Janniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07704476259803360210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6031707140462457270.post-88630611302772354482011-12-22T00:52:45.059-08:002011-12-22T00:52:45.059-08:00Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the gam...Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the game should be changed. I'm simply saying what it is and what it isn't. What it is, is the treatment of armed conflict as a sport that you partake in for fun. What it isn't, is a cultural experience that reinforces your respect for the rules of war, in spite of dealing with the exact subject matter that would make it relevant.<br /><br />Both things are fundamentally ok, protected speech, and it probably does more good than harm by giving people a way to relieve stress and wind down. In fact, the general awareness it probably raises on the subject of war could easily make it a net good.<br /><br />But the ICRC's reminder that there are certain problems with it, and that more could be done with it? That's also a good thing, and shouldn't be hammered down like you're doing.Madshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05061888501151043115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6031707140462457270.post-62396084059083204742011-12-22T00:52:33.537-08:002011-12-22T00:52:33.537-08:00@ Jannie:
Firstly, I want to link this:
http://ww...@ Jannie:<br />Firstly, I want to link this:<br /><br />http://www.icrc.org/eng/resources/documents/faq/ihl-video-games-faq-2011-12-08.htm#.TuDvryV_MfA.twitter<br /><br />Jannie wrote:<br />"<br />Basically, like I said, they're either purposefully lying (because military shooters are the currently largest selling media in history, and they want attention) or they're ignorant of the facts. Either way, they're wrong, that is an objective fact, and frankly I think they know it but don't care. <br />"<br /><br />ICRC wrote:<br />"<br />In real life, armed forces are subject to the laws of armed conflict. Video games simulating the experience of armed forces therefore have the potential to raise awareness of the rules that those forces must comply with whenever they engage in armed conflict – this is one of the things that interests the ICRC. As a matter of fact, certain video games already take into account how real-life military personnel are trained to behave in conflict situations.<br />"<br />So obviously they know it, and they obviously do care to make that nuance known.<br /><br />Jannie wrote:<br />"<br />The real problem here, and what the Red Cross is actually arguing, is that these games either allow or encourage breaking the rules of war. Neither is true, and in fact this can be easily proved by simply looking at some guy on YouTube play through the thing. So I don't see exactly why the gaming industry or community should even bother to respond to this, or at least in any way other than the way we would if Jack Thompson made such an obviously spurious claim.<br /> "<br />No, that is not what they're arguing. They're arguing that games can (and sometimes already do) encourage respect for the rules of war and humanitarian interests in general, according to this:<br /><br />ICRC wrote:<br />"<br />Part of the ICRC's mandate, conferred on it by States, is to promote respect for international humanitarian law – also known as the law of armed conflict – and universal humanitarian principles. Given this mandate and the ICRC's long history and expertise in matters relating to armed conflict, the development of these games is clearly of interest to the organization.<br />"<br />Which is an observable fact.<br /><br />Here's my final point to you:<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_WHaMzZQ-w&feature=related<br />Does this seem like a respectful treatment of the subject matter of armed conflict? The gaming experience provided here is obviously action pumped fun. Modern Warfare 3 turns armed conflict into a mockery of the real thing. It's gleeful, and I bet the guy playing it was grinning all over his face.<br />The red cross never argued that gaming was causing war crimes, and you know it. But you know what, I'll gladly step up and argue that this type of game, by linking armed violence and base fun in this fashion, is undoubtedly eroding the respect and reverence with which some part of the player population would otherwise treat armed conflict.<br />And if people were more respectful of the subject of war, I bet the rules of war and humanitarian concerns would also be more important.<br /><br />From there, it's easy to see why a respected organization such as ICRC would put its weight behind making the statements of the above linked faq….and I think you're completely unfair to assume that they're trying to grab attention at the expense of games.Madshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05061888501151043115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6031707140462457270.post-78485427488769957022011-12-21T21:27:54.647-08:002011-12-21T21:27:54.647-08:00Basically, like I said, they're either purpose...Basically, like I said, they're either purposefully lying (because military shooters are the currently largest selling media in history, and they want attention) or they're ignorant of the facts. Either way, they're wrong, that is an objective fact, and frankly I think they know it but don't care. <br /><br />And any claim that games "need an Apocalypse Now" comes from a similar place of ignorance. Not to offend everyone, but we need to step back for a moment, remember that old canard "no soldier views an anti-war movie as an anti-war movie" and ask ourselves would making Apocalypse Now: the Game of the Movie actually do? It wouldn't sell at all, I can promise that, so at best it'd be there merely to satiate a few people who for whatever reason need or want games to be...what? More "serious"? More "grown up"? By who's definition of either? Roger Ebert? What precisely would be the endgame (no pun intended) of such a Quixotic undertaking, simply to look smart in front of the other entertainment medias? Well since ours is currently at the top of the heap and movies, books, tv and music are all far, far behind I think we can all kind of rest assured that they're snide remarks and lack of respect is more out of insecurity than us being behind, so why sacrifice fun and enjoyment on the alter of "srs bizness!" now?<br /><br />I'm sorry but am I just not insecure enough? I see no reason why any of us should care if "gaming has its own Citizen Kane!" which by the way is another overrated, melodramatic movie which is passed off as somehow deep or meaningful despite having a glaring plot hole in the first few minutes, yet if you listen to some people, like Extra Credits for example, gaming just isn't complete until we cranking out some Oscar bait drivel every year like sausages.<br /><br />How about this: movies aren't going to ever be taken seriously as a valid form of entertainment until the next high art drama starring Ryan Gosling sells 400 million dollars worth of tickets the first twenty-four hours like Modern Warfare 3. <br /><br />But I digress. That's not what this is about. What this is about is that someone made a claim which a lot of people who NEVER have actually played these games will now take as fact because they will also never waste their precious seconds looking up a walkthrough on the internet to even confirm if it is true or not. This is seriously EXACTLY the same as when someone claimed that Mass Effect was a porno because it had a few seconds here and there of poor quality, late night TV level sex (yawn) in it. This is the same thing that happened when those kids shot up Columbine and suddenly it was Doom's fault because obviously killing a huge, floating head with one eye that spits fire is the same as killing a human being in real life. Then for a second there Power Rangers, of all things, was making kids violent.<br /><br />Now apparently Modern Warfare is the cause of modern warCRIMES (hurhur). I guess I missed that part where they actually presented some evidence for this, but then again, I'm not surprised since the media is so ill-informed and certain sectors of gaming in general so prone to treating "bro gamers" like pariahs that of course it must be true. Except that it demonstrably isn't true and even a few minutes into the game this claim can be disproved.Janniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07704476259803360210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6031707140462457270.post-62479274835962496132011-12-21T21:15:35.379-08:002011-12-21T21:15:35.379-08:00Ok so, back to what I was saying. I seriously doub...Ok so, back to what I was saying. I seriously doubt that the Red Cross is suggesting, as Wolfboy says, that these games should have scenes where children are killed by stray gunfire. What possible purpose would that serve? More so if their view is that these games encourage breaking the Geneva Convention, then here they're simply and demonstrably wrong. As I have said, and I'm not the only one here who has, these games make it almost impossible to kill civilians, and even in the one time I can recall where you COULD kill civies, the game didn't require or encourage you to do so, and you weren't even playing as a sanctioned soldier in any way shape or form so you're not even EXPECTED there to follow any rule of war.<br /><br />But that's not why someone suggested putting all this malarkey into the game, breaking the flow of the game and siphoning the fun out of it. No the reason is this inane theory, and I have no idea where this came from, that somehow military games need to be "more Apocalypse Now and less Red Dawn". Forget for a moment that Red Dawn isn't some horrible blight on the world that can be used as a a pejorative in that way, even if it fucking was it STILL would scarcely change anything because, believe it or not, Apocalypse Now and Red Dawn are about equally "realistic" in their portrayal of war.<br /><br />Oh, one is certainly more melodramatic, more maudlin, and more prone to fetishizing the moral failings of man by making every character an unlikable douche...but that's not a realistic reflection of war. If you actually ask a Vietnam vet what they think of, say, Platoon or Apocalypse Now or whatever most of them will tell you it's shit, because it's not at all a realistic or mature view of war it's just a more grim and gritty one. It's the same mentality that makes people think that Dark Knight is any more realistic than Batman and Robin, somehow, or that the Firefly is more realistic than Flash Gordon, again somehow. Dark and gritty and over-dramatic doesn't make it "realistic" it just makes it murky and ambiguous. It's a hipster's idea of "deep".<br /><br />I've actually known people who served in Iraq who used to fume at me about how, after Hurt Locker, every late drinking trust fund baby who went to the movies that year suddenly thought they knew everything about serving in war. Actual soldiers view these movies quite poorly--its only the majority population whose only exposure to war is dramatic music cues swelling up as some actor delivers a line about how horrible war is in Vietnam (from a set, on a studio backlot) who think that this is in any way remotely realistic. <br /><br />So no, even if we made a scene for scene recreation of Platoon you could play through like an FMV game from the 90s, it would make it no more "realistic" or reflect actual war any more so than Modern Warfare already does. <br /><br />But all of that is just the usual "games must be art FIRST and entertainment a distant ninth!" nonsense that's polluted games for more than a few years now. The real problem here, and what the Red Cross is actually arguing, is that these games either allow or encourage breaking the rules of war. Neither is true, and in fact this can be easily proved by simply looking at some guy on YouTube play through the thing. So I don't see exactly why the gaming industry or community should even bother to respond to this, or at least in any way other than the way we would if Jack Thompson made such an obviously spurious claim.<br /><br />Cont.Janniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07704476259803360210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6031707140462457270.post-4209537684307562892011-12-21T14:23:14.203-08:002011-12-21T14:23:14.203-08:00I don't have a whole lot of time at the moment...I don't have a whole lot of time at the moment to comment but I'm going to address this whole thing on a more specific level in a couple of hours when I have some time freed up.<br /><br />I have one thing to ask though:<br /><br />@Wolfboy, IS that what the Red Cross is saying, because it doesn't sound like it. They said, as far as I know, that basically FPS games allow and encourage you violate the rules of war. This is demonstrably, objectively incorrect since most do not actually ALLOW this to be possible let alone encourage it. Now if they said that these games are not "realistic" enough, that's their opinion, but that's got nothing to do with the Geneva Convention. There IS no Geneva violation in these games, the games actively prevent it from happening. So either they're wrong, lying or both...which as I said wouldn't be the first time, see Fox News vs Mass Effect. <br /><br />I also have some choice words about the alleged artistic merit of Apocalypse Now (hint: actual vets don't see it that way if you ever talk to them) and its value as a game design, if any, but that's for a later time.Janniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07704476259803360210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6031707140462457270.post-70969642489509020822011-12-21T13:17:45.062-08:002011-12-21T13:17:45.062-08:00I don't understand why Retrothinker got upset ...I don't understand why Retrothinker got upset when he stepped on Bomberman. It was lying on the ground in what seemed like some back alley. It was exactly where it belonged.<br /><br />I understand that a fantasy depiction of war mixed with realistic weapons and brown-grey environments doesn't sit well with many people, but I love the present state of gaming and I am excited about the future of gaming.<br /><br />Nintendo brought the dungeon puzzle solving outside in Skyward Sword. The controls are great.<br /><br />I can play Super Mario on my handheld and my TV, Paper Mario is coming out for the 3DS, and I can make platformer levels on LittleBigPlanet.<br /><br />Skyrim was a pretty serious game for the most part, but fighting dragons, shouting people off their feet, shooting flames from my hands, turning into a werewolf, and just wandering around a large landscape was awesome and so much fun.<br /><br />Dark Souls brought open world exploration to its tough-as-nails gameplay while expanding its great series of hideous monsters. I love the cooperative online play. No BS--just helping each other.<br /><br />Finally, there are so many amazing downloadable games. I loved The Bastion.RockPlazaCentralhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07485953931901667402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6031707140462457270.post-68559449389181566742011-12-21T00:05:15.064-08:002011-12-21T00:05:15.064-08:00Given the lively debate going on in what I assume ...Given the lively debate going on in what I assume is every "new episode" post, it seems almost wrong that the only thing I feel the need to comment on is something I should probably keep my mouth shut about since it has nothing to do with the discussion. Namely, a plothole in the framing device.<br /><br />Retrothinker seems to imply the episode was recorded in 1990 specifically. I'm sure there's more holes than the one I noticed concerning release dates and that I'm of the impression the U.S. gaming community wasn't actually aware that Japan had anything to do with gaming at the time. The one I did notice, though? He speaks about the possibility of 16-bit Kirby, even though <i>Kirby's Dream Land</i> wasn't released, even in Japan, until <i>1992</i>.<br /><br />Granted, this is a world where there are parallel universes and a sentient hay pile had a pair of humanoid children (it'd be interesting to know who the mother was), but still. These sort of things kinda bug me.supercomputer276https://www.blogger.com/profile/01139106355432383170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6031707140462457270.post-74108598070321485232011-12-19T22:49:34.171-08:002011-12-19T22:49:34.171-08:00@ Spongey Blob
"
I think I was addressing mo...@ Spongey Blob<br /><br />"<br />I think I was addressing more Red Cross's specific argument (war crimes should be portrayed in games) as opposed to their overall complaint (the levity with which war is portrayed) and I was being pretty dumb, and for that I apologise.<br />"<br />I actually think it's completely fair to dig into their specific points, but the only thing it proves for certain when you find those flawed is that the red cross aren't very good at talking about specific aspects of games. They don't use a clear language, they confuse distinct issues for eachother, and they generally don't appear to understand games well enough to isolate the root of their concern. Which, well...probably isn't terribly controversial, or even something you can hold against them. They don't play at being medics in TF2, they're bloody well actual medics.<br /><br />I think you're already on the same page as I am on this, so I'm just writing this for arguments sake, but the point is, their overarching sentiment really does come from somewhere, and I can both understand it and respect it. Even if they fumble something and have come out on the negative side when it comes to gamer PR, I think it's a valuable message, and I hope many people will hear it.<br /><br />Anyway, I do agree that CoD gets a bad rap. It's singleplayer mode does try fairly hard to be Full Metal Jacket. As I recall, there's a particular sequence where you drop bombs from a safe spot in the sky, which illustrates just how horrible a means of war bombing is. A friend of mine was very impressed with the subtle way in which it conveyed its message about bombing.<br /><br />Also, that game you're talking about? Already made, more or less. From about 2005 and onwards, there has been a massive surge in arthouse games of various kinds. The indie scene is typically where they originate.<br /><br />The title eludes me but I can look it up if you want.Madshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05061888501151043115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6031707140462457270.post-58519745496735112122011-12-19T16:45:00.619-08:002011-12-19T16:45:00.619-08:00This is a very intresting episode, I do sort of ag...This is a very intresting episode, I do sort of agree with bob that the gamers sort of overreacted when the red cross talked about it. <br /><br />As for the Retrothinker, I hope that he gets a happy ending, maybe he will experience Minecraft. =3Wesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6031707140462457270.post-5171315941869897342011-12-19T16:02:02.667-08:002011-12-19T16:02:02.667-08:00It seems to me this RetroThinker is Sean Malstrom....It seems to me this RetroThinker is Sean Malstrom. They seem to have a similar point of view on past gaming. Also knowing how he feels about current gaming I know how the RetroThinker is going to feel. Great Episode keep doing your thing Bob. If they don't like it they don't have to watch.JodeciDeion:TheWonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12782917050302286049noreply@blogger.com